SaaS operator and Salesforce alum ⁠⁠Jeraldine Phneah⁠⁠ goes on call with host ⁠⁠Paulo J⁠⁠ in this episode of ⁠⁠Academy Afterthoughts⁠⁠ to walk down memory lane on her Insignia Ventures Academy VC accelerator experience, how she was able to leverage the VC perspective she gained in her SaaS career, how content creation and her career come together, as well as dive into her learnings on GTM and sales engines for startups. The VC accelerator is now recruiting for its 6th cohort! Level up your career in Southeast Asia’s startup ecosystems with the venture capital perspective. To apply, check out the ⁠⁠VC Accelerator program page⁠⁠ or reach out to our program lead ⁠⁠Jiaway Koh⁠⁠!

Timestamps and Highlights

(01:02) Insignia Ventures Academy is not just for aspiring VCs, but career SaaS operators too;

“For me, one of the direct benefits that this program had to me was actually helping me to do better at my job. Because as part of my role, I have to engage a couple of VCs and do partnerships with them, and the whole program really equipped me with the ability to view the world from their lens, to understand what their job and their priorities are like, and then to be able to engage them and speak in their language.”

(11:00) Learnings on Finding Your Ideal Customer Profile from Salesforce;

“When it comes to selling software at Salesforce, many people think it’s easy because many people already know what Salesforce is. However, my team specifically sells to SMEs, companies that are maybe less than a hundred or 200 people within the Singapore market. That was actually very challenging because Salesforce itself is about three times more expensive than all the other newer CRM competitors. Selling Salesforce to a company of that size would typically be as difficult as selling a Ferrari to a normal person. But we overcame it by identifying our ideal customer profile (ICP) and doubling down.”

(13:11) Content Creation as a SaaS Operator and for SaaS businesses;

“Because people don’t trust you just because you put content. They trust you because you put content that is relevant, that solves their problem, that is useful and easily digestible.”

(17:12) How to Build a Sustainable Company by Thinking in Recurring Revenues and Big Problems;

“If you feel that a customer is not a good fit for your solution, then don’t sign them on because eventually, they will churn. That’s not a good use of company resources and it damages the product’s reputation…Secondly, it’s important to focus on things like the onboarding experience and the support experience. Only when customers are successful and see the value the first time will they renew with us and continue to purchase from the company.”

(19:31) #MinuteMasterclass: How to Find the Right People to Execute GTM Strategies for SaaS Startups;

“Some mistakes that people make around hiring and setting up for success is that they might hire people who do not have relevant experience like they might be coming from a background in partnerships or renewals, but that doesn’t mean that these individuals will be able to execute a good sales process.”

(21:17) #RapidFireRound;

About our guest

Jeraldine Phneah is a SaaS Account Executive with a track record of helping growth stage companies expand in Southeast Asia, having worked with the likes of Salesforce, Euromonitor, Workato, and more in growth, BD, and AE roles. She is also a content creator, who shares her learnings on accelerating one’s growth while achieving balance and giving back to the community. She has been featured on Forbes, and The Straits Times, among other publications. I have also spoken at events such as the Seedly Personal Finance Festival 2021 and YWLC/Grab’s Future Women Leaders Forum 2022. She has also been a LinkedIn Top Voices. She is an alumnus of Insignia Ventures Academy’s 4th Cohort.

The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only, should not be taken as legal, tax, or business advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security, and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Insignia Ventures⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ fund.

Transcript

Insignia Ventures Academy is not just for aspiring VCs, but career SaaS operators too

Paulo J: So I think we should dive right in since this is Academy Afterthoughts. Our listeners would love to know where you came from coming into the IVA program. Maybe you can share a little bit about that time in your career, your life, and why you decided to join IVA.

Jeraldine P: Sure. Let me start by giving a quick introduction about myself for those who are seeing or hearing me for the first time. My name is Geraldine Pi, and I’ve been working in the software as a service industry for the past nine years, primarily focusing on sales and helping growth-stage companies scale within Southeast Asia.

On top of that, I’m also a content creator, creating content around growth, achieving balance, and giving back to the community. So that’s a quick introduction of myself. When I first joined Insignia Ventures Academy, I was about eight or nine years into the software service space.

I really got a good sense of what it’s like to be an operator, having done so much GTM strategy work and execution for many SaaS companies. What I wanted to achieve was to get a broader perspective, from that of an investor, not just into the software as a service space, but also into various startups in general.

My goal was to think about how I better serve my digital native and startup customers. I wanted to understand them beyond just a functional or technology lever into a more in-depth business level as well.

Paulo J: Yeah. So I find that quite interesting because obviously when people hear about Insignia Ventures Academy, the first thought is, oh, you’re joining because you want to start a career in investing. Maybe even become a VC or an angel investor. But for yourself, you really wanted to tie it into what you’re doing in your career and your path in terms of software as a service sales.

So how did that background influence your experience? Were there preconceptions or notions that you had to let go of or anything that confirmed what you had learned prior to joining the academy?

Jeraldine P: When I was still working as an operator, it was very easy to get siloed into the world of execution and just go-to-market strategy. But a startup is so much more than go-to-market, right? And so much more than revenue.

There are so many other aspects to it in a business aspect, and I really wanted to get that whole high-level overview of a business, not just a sales business, but also a startup business in general so that I could really understand how my customers and my own company were doing and whether they were heading in the right direction.

Paulo J: What would you say is the highlight of your IVA experience? It’s a 12-week affair and for many folks really intensive, and there are a lot of different aspects to it: sessions, IC meetings, and activities that you have to do outside of the sessions themselves. What was the highlight for you?

Jeraldine P: Overall, I found this experience to be really wonderful. I liked that it was so well-structured, and in each different call, we would have a different team. So I really got a good sense of what it’s like to source, research, do due diligence, and also to pitch to the investment committee as well.

I really enjoyed most of these aspects, but if you ask me what was the highlight and the one thing that I enjoyed the most, it was really the guest speakers. What I felt was great about this program is that the team actually brought in really good guest speakers from either previous sessions or industry contacts that they knew to speak to us about really real-world relevant types of issues.

And I’ll just talk about maybe one of the examples which I experienced that I thought was really insightful. There’s this particular session that was talking about hiring and culture, and it just struck me that, okay, you know what, in a large established corporation, the quality of talent doesn’t really move the needle when it comes to revenue performance and the competitiveness of a company.

But in a startup, good talent can actually be a moat, right? And it’s actually really important, especially so in the growth stages and all that. And who you hire, especially in a leadership role, can really set a startup back significantly.

Paulo J: You joined the SaaS theme if I remember correctly. For our listeners out there, the Academy is structured in such a way that you join a team specific to a vertical of your choosing or it’s assigned depending on how things go.

We’ve had people on the show share about how they decided to choose an industry very different from where they came from. But for you, you chose something that was very much in your lane. So I was curious to know, like what is something new about the industry, the SaaS industry that you learned going through the program, working together with that team, looking at different SaaS companies in the region?

Jeraldine P: When I first joined the SaaS sector, I was very clear that this is a sector that I want to be in. And hence I had no hesitations about doubling down and improving my knowledge on it. Although I have spent quite a lot of time in the SaaS sector, what I learned through the academy is still very relevant and interesting.

Because all the past few years I’ve been investing in publicly listed SaaS companies. So all these have financial data that is available, that we can pull out all the metrics and everything. It’s very quantitative, and I have all the data that is available. But when it comes to evaluating a SaaS startup, the approach will be different. Of course, there are still some things that we look at like traction, MRR growth, and everything. But there are a few other qualitative factors that we have to look into as well. And that’s when I found the Academy very useful because there was a really good standardized framework around how do we approach evaluating maybe like a pre-series, a seed-stage kind of company.

So things like looking at the founder-market fit and also things like doing the due diligence right with the customers and all that will be very important.

Paulo J: Beyond the SaaS exercise and diving into that industry, what has been your biggest takeaway from the IVA experience?

Jeraldine P: For me, one of the direct benefits that this program had to me was actually helping me to do better at my job. Because as part of my role, I have to engage a couple of VCs and do partnerships with them, and the whole program really equipped me with the ability to view the world from their lens, to understand what their job and their priorities are like, and then to be able to engage them and speak in their language.

That was a very big key takeaway for me. And on top of that, something else that is also very important for me was being able to understand how to evaluate early-stage SaaS companies because this gives me the ability to understand also, hey, what kind of companies should I join as an employee myself? How do I assess the odds of success if I want to join a startup?

Paulo J: Yeah. So I wanted to dive into those two takeaways that you mentioned. First is the language that you were able to acquire. Maybe you could give some specific scenarios of how your language or how the way you communicate has changed.

Jeraldine P: I really wanted to understand as an operator, how do VCs engage founders and what is the relationship like? The whole idea of the program was that it was actually able to give me the foundation to understand that, “Hey, it’s not just like investing, like I’m putting money into this company, but there’s also this process of value creation.”

How do I add value to this company through introductions, solutions, and all that? That was really insightful to me because it helped me to view things from that investing is not just okay, I put my money into this company, like how I’m investing in the public markets, but really being a partner and helping the organization grow as well.

Paulo J: To the second takeaway that you mentioned, which is really how to evaluate early-stage SaaS companies. I wanted to ask, what’s your heuristic or your approach to evaluating these companies, especially early-stage, and how has that evolved over the past few months, especially in this industry?

Jeraldine P: The second part I actually mentioned, just a quick recap, was really more about as an employee myself, how do I evaluate an early or Series B kind of company and whether or not I should join it. I grew to learn that there are a couple of factors to look at because, as I mentioned earlier, in this kind of organization, typically the metrics are not very visible.

So you have to look at other things as well. Some of the things I started to look at would be the founders, the background founder-market fit, and whether or not they have experience with success. What is the leadership team like? These are some of the factors that I’ve started to look into as well. And also have done more due diligence about the companies and tractions that they have with customers.

“For me, one of the direct benefits that this program had to me was actually helping me to do better at my job. Because as part of my role, I have to engage a couple of VCs and do partnerships with them, and the whole program really equipped me with the ability to view the world from their lens, to understand what their job and their priorities are like, and then to be able to engage them and speak in their language.”

Learnings on Finding Your Ideal Customer Profile from Salesforce

Paulo J: I wanted to learn more about your background in SaaS, especially your experience at Salesforce. If you could share any particular learnings from that time or maybe even a challenge that you overcame during your path to a career in SaaS.

Jeraldine P: I’m happy to share a little more about my experience at Salesforce. I joined Salesforce because it is technically the founder of SaaS, right? That’s why we can learn all the best practices for go-to-market. I thought it was a wonderful company, and I still have a lot of love for the organization as well as my friends who are all there and who came from there.

When it comes to selling software at Salesforce, many people think it’s easy because many people already know what Salesforce is. However, my team specifically sells to SMEs, companies that are maybe less than a hundred or 200 people within the Singapore market. That was actually very challenging because Salesforce itself is about three times more expensive than all the other newer CRM competitors.

Selling Salesforce to a company of that size would typically be as difficult as selling a Ferrari to a normal person. But we overcame it by identifying our ideal customer profile (ICP) and doubling down. For example, when it comes to Salesforce, the ideal customer profile for a smaller company would be first high growth, one that is venture-backed. They have huge growth targets, and that’s when customer experience is really top of mind. 

Secondly, a second-generation established SME, where the younger generation of business owners have taken over their parents and want to digitize what used to be a traditional business.

That’s the two ICPs that we double down on. Another important thing we did was to sign Salesforce up as part of the PSG program in Singapore, which gave us the ability to reach out to a broader range of salespeople who are now able to purchase Salesforce with government grants.

“When it comes to selling software at Salesforce, many people think it’s easy because many people already know what Salesforce is. However, my team specifically sells to SMEs, companies that are maybe less than a hundred or 200 people within the Singapore market. That was actually very challenging because Salesforce itself is about three times more expensive than all the other newer CRM competitors. Selling Salesforce to a company of that size would typically be as difficult as selling a Ferrari to a normal person. But we overcame it by identifying our ideal customer profile (ICP) and doubling down.”

Content Creation as a SaaS Operator and for SaaS businesses

Paulo J: I really like how you structured your answer around looking at the ICP. 

I wanted to shift gears a little bit and talk about what you mentioned earlier in your introduction. You create a lot of content, especially on LinkedIn, and you’re also a LinkedIn Top Voices, if I’m not mistaken. I wanted to hear how these activities as a content creator have impacted your career and vice versa. What are the synergies that you’ve been able to derive from doing this?

Jeraldine P: Definitely, there are both benefits as well as cons of being both a content creator and working full-time. Let me talk about the benefits first. So there are tons of benefits, and let me highlight a few.

The first is being able to attract like-minded people. People who are also interested in the things that I write about, like Growth, SaaS, and Southeast Asia, things like productivity. Being able to attract these like-minded people who have similar values has been one of the major pluses of being a content creator.

Another important thing was also being able to attract employers who prefer those who are more outspoken, who have a growth mindset, who are more passionate, and who take time outside of work to actually learn about their field. So that’s a second plus. The third is that because I established subject matter expertise in the field of startups, Southeast Asia, that’s how I got to connect with a lot of founders and investors who are also in the same field. So these are the benefits that I’ve had of being both a content creator and an account executive at the same time. But of course, it’s not all perfect, and there are some cons.

Number one, I think that in Asia, sometimes there are more traditional employers with a more traditional mindset who might view content creation as a distraction. So, because you are spending time on content creation, then you have no time to focus on your work, which is not a very accurate or logical conclusion. 

Furthermore, when you put yourself out there and you appear authentically as who you are, you definitely don’t get everyone who likes you. There will be a group of people who disagree with you or who might even be jealous because they might not be doing as well. So this is one of the cons of being a content creator and also an account executive at the same time.

But overall, I see it as a huge plus because if an employer sees content creation as something that they don’t quite agree with and don’t want their employees to focus on, then perhaps, maybe they might not be the right fit for me.

Paulo J: I have two follow-up questions. The first one is what advice do you have for employees who are looking to get into content creation apart from their full-time job?

Jeraldine P: I guess it all begins with first of all identifying what topics you’d like to talk about and then secondly starting. Just starting because you need to have content. Integration is all about discipline as well. You need to have the discipline to have a consistent posting schedule so that people know what to expect from you, and you’ll be able to build traction from there.

Paulo J: Yeah, I can definitely relate to that. The second question I wanted to ask related to content creation was, I think a lot of B2B, even more specifically SaaS companies are really looking at thought leadership as an avenue to build mind share and kick off relationships that they believe are important in building a customer base. 

What advice do you have for SaaS founders who are dipping their feet into content creation themselves as a way for go-to-market or build those kinds of relationships?

Jeraldine P: I think the whole idea is really to put your audience and your customer at the center of the content that you create. 

First of all, identify who is my ideal customer profile. What are the challenges and pain that they go through? What are the questions that are top of their mind? Why are they feeling that way? What are the roadblocks that they face? And then creating content as a solution around it. 

Because people don’t trust you just because you put content. They trust you because you put content that is relevant, that solves their problem, that is useful and easily digestible. 

“Because people don’t trust you just because you put content. They trust you because you put content that is relevant, that solves their problem, that is useful and easily digestible.”

How to Build a Sustainable Company by Thinking in Recurring Revenues and Big Problems

Paulo J: Yep. Definitely put the customer first, as with anything. Before we head into our next topic, I just wanted to take a moment to get your thoughts on the general industry and tech company building in today’s market.

How would you say your experience in SaaS has shaped the way you view what it takes to build a sustainable company?

Jeraldine P: This might sound cliché, but the nature of SaaS is that it relies on recurring revenue. So, this means customer success is absolutely super important. Growing up and still being in this industry has taught me how to put my customers at the center of everything I do and always think long-term.

What does it mean to think long-term? It starts with the sales process. If you feel that a customer is not a good fit for your solution, then don’t sign them on because eventually, they will churn. That’s not a good use of company resources and it damages the product’s reputation.

Also, the customer experience is crucial. Secondly, it’s important to focus on things like the onboarding experience and the support experience. Only when customers are successful and see the value the first time will they renew with us and continue to purchase from the company.

Other than customer success, I’ve also learned the importance of keeping the revenue engine both powerful and efficient. The revenue engine includes everything from marketing to closing leads and ensuring that they renew across the entire revenue journey.

How do you keep this journey efficient and prevent leaks and gaps in the go-to-market strategy? Any kind of leak can actually impact the customer acquisition cost that the organization has and also impact the customer’s experience and the reputation of the company.

The third thing I’ve learned is that it’s really important to make sure that the problems you solve are aligned with C-Suite priorities. As long as you’re solving a big problem and addressing an important challenge that the customer has, that translates to a larger deal size for the organization.

Whereas if you’re just solving a tiny problem or maybe just a “nice-to-have,” then customers may not be willing to spend with you because every spend they make with your software is a recurring annual one.

“If you feel that a customer is not a good fit for your solution, then don’t sign them on because eventually, they will churn. That’s not a good use of company resources and it damages the product’s reputation…Secondly, it’s important to focus on things like the onboarding experience and the support experience. Only when customers are successful and see the value the first time will they renew with us and continue to purchase from the company.”

#MinuteMasterclass: How to Find the Right People to Execute GTM Strategies for SaaS Startups

Paulo J: Three great points on what founders can learn from how to build SaaS companies.

I wanted to now go into our corner minute masterclass and ask you if, if you were to give a masterclass on a specific topic with regards to company building to a class of entrepreneurs or fellow operators like yourself, what topic would you focus on and what would be the key takeaway you would want your class to have on that topic?

Jeraldine P: I guess if I had to do a masterclass, I would really focus on a topic that I’m very familiar with, which is go-to-market for software-as-a-service companies, specifically in Southeast Asia because that’s an area where I have experience.

So perhaps some of the key points that I would focus on would be hiring, because I think a lot of SaaS companies struggle with hiring and ensuring that their sales reps are successful. Things like how to identify a good candidate and how to set them up for success would be very important points that could ensure that a company brings in significant revenue.

Some mistakes that people make around hiring and setting up for success is that they might hire people who do not have relevant experience like they might be coming from a background in partnerships or renewals, but that doesn’t mean that these individuals will be able to execute a good sales process.

On top of that, sometimes companies may want to hire people with big tech experience because they think the logo looks good, like Microsoft, IBM, or HP, but it doesn’t mean that someone who has that kind of technology experience will be very good at running fast and scaling up a sales company. So those are the key topics that I might cover.

“Some mistakes that people make around hiring and setting up for success is that they might hire people who do not have relevant experience, like they might be coming from a background in partnerships or renewals, but that doesn’t mean that these individuals will be able to execute a good sales process.”

#RapidFireRound

What digital technology or innovation excites you the most today?

Jeraldine P: I think that health tech is an interesting area that I’ve started to pay more attention to lately because we are all going to live longer than our parents, and our children are going to live longer than our generation as well.

So the whole idea is really how do we extend our health spend to ensure that we maximize the years that we are alive and don’t spend the last few, the last decade, or the last few years not being able to walk and really make the most out of our life. So an area of health tech is really exciting to me.

What is a skill that could be a soft skill or hard skill that you believe you should have learned back in your time as a student?

Jeraldine P: Yeah. Wow, there are so many answers. There are so many things that I want to say, right?

Because I feel that in university, there’s a lot of focus on theory, on knowledge, but not so much on soft skills. So maybe two skills that I hope could be imparted to the younger generation, and I wish I learned earlier as well. The first one will be on personal finance, which is improving the way you manage money.

A second would be to not be shy about talking about money, because that’s a very important topic that affects our lives in a very realistic way. And the second one would actually be on managing upwards because a lot of us don’t actually know how to do that. And if I learned that earlier, I think I would have progressed much more significantly in my career.

What’s your favorite go-to destination in Southeast Asia? I guess apart from Singapore, since you’re in Singapore, or what trip are you most looking forward to taking in the region?

Jeraldine P: There are quite a few destinations that I like, but I think that I’m gonna be so basic and answer that it’s Bali and why I love Bali. But there’s one place I really look forward to visiting, and that’s Angkor Wat.

What’s your favorite activity to de-stress?

Jeraldine P: Swimming or diving because when I’m in the water, I don’t think about anything else except the water. So it’s really for mindfulness. It’s also a very efficient exercise because it works all muscles and it’s great for stamina.

Anything that you’ve read or taken up recently that you’d like to recommend to our listeners?

Jeraldine P: Specific to this topic of business and all, I think that one of the books that I read that really stood out to me is called Amp It Up, and Amp It Up is written by Frank Slootman, who is the CEO of Snowflake, and I thought that was such a great book.