Lending is not for the faint of heart. But when Trasy Lou Walsh found the right partners to embark with on her first startup venture, she took the leap and started Fluid. 

With Fluid, she is working to bring consumer-level payment experiences to B2B ecommerce transactions, starting with handling buyer payments to suppliers (i.e., buy now pay later for B2B).

Trasy goes on call with us to talk about what makes BNPL for B2B different from B2C (even across industries), how they have navigated the early challenges of building a lending business model (e.g., bringing a CFO on board, securing MNC clients like Coca Cola, etc.), and how building Fluid as its CEO has impacted her own perspective on entrepreneurship and motherhood. 

Timestamps

(00:04) Highlights;

(09:53) Becoming a founder;

(16:23) Fluid’s first client and first VC;

(20:36) Bringing consumer-level fluidity to B2B payment experiences;

(25:36) The culture and talent needed to revolutionize B2B payments

(34:04) Reflections on the future and the past;

(37:59) Rapid Fire Round;

About our guest

Trasy Lou Walsh is CEO and Co-founder of Fluid. Prior to Fluid, she was Regional General Manager at BNPL startup Atome. Before that she was Head of Restaurant Operations at Uber Eats Asia Pacific. She received her MBA from HKUST Business School as well as an executive education at Harvard Business School. 

About Fluid

Over 70% of B2B payments involve deferred payment or credit terms. Because of the complexity and risk that comes with these types of payments, many suppliers find it difficult to accommodate buyer requests for credit. 

For suppliers, this locks out customers and limits growth. For buyers, this narrows down supplier options and lengthens procurement and payment processes. Fluid’s platform tackles both sides of the equation, allowing suppliers to take on buyers with credit terms while also enabling access to purchase financing for buyers. 

By using Fluid, suppliers enjoy a streamlined process where they no longer need to engage with debt providers, undergo credit checks for buyers, or hire a big team to do settlement and reconciliation. 

For buyers, Fluid empowers them with flexible terms, introducing automated processes and instant underwriting through a zero-question approach. Fluid simplifies and consolidates the B2B transaction landscape, offering a hassle-free solution for suppliers seeking efficiency and ease in their operations. 

Fluid sets itself apart from the traditionally process-heavy, cumbersome, and finance-centric payments experiences and digital invoice factoring solutions with a consumer-grade solution drawn from the product background of its founders. 

Fluid was founded in early 2023 by fintech and ecommerce leaders CEO Trasy Lou Walsh (former regional GM at Atome and GM at Uber), CPO Steven Li (former Head of Product at Coupang Pay and Atome), and CFO Ruoyun Yang (former Lendable Head of Asia and Investments at IFC).

Transcript

Becoming a Founder

Paulo: First things first, for our listeners out there, they’re probably wondering what Fluid is. So maybe you can give us a quick rundown, and then we’ll get into the weeds of things.

Trasy: Fluid is a Buy Now, Pay Later startup in Asia, and our vision is really to streamline B2B payments so that the seller, particularly the distributor, can handle the payment seamlessly for the buyer. So whether you’re thinking about paying now, paying on delivery, or paying with credit terms, we want Fluid to handle it for you.

Paulo: It’s quite straightforward if you think about it. But what’s interesting is you mentioned BNPL, and that does stem from your own background, having worked in a B2C BNPL context. 

We’ll get more into that in a bit, but I wanted to first talk about your decision to start Fluid. It’s still very much an early startup, so I’m sure the memory is fresh in your mind. Maybe you can bring us back to that decision. Was it a eureka moment, or was it a decision made over several months to eventually start Fluid?

Trasy: I do believe that entrepreneurship has always been in my heart and in my blood. But I didn’t really have a good idea to start something until Fluid’s idea came to my mind.

When I was working at Atome, the consumer Buy Now, Pay Later startup, we had some clients asking for a similar solution for B2B buyers. That idea really struck me, and I started researching. I realized that a number of similar startups were popping up in the US and Europe that had just raised a bunch of money. 

But starting a company is always difficult without a co-founder, so I pretty much put the idea on the back burner until Steve, my co-founder, reached out. He’s in product and tech, and he was the head of fintech at Coupang in Korea at that time. 

He mentioned that he was pretty bored with his job and wanted to do something exciting, so he asked whether I wanted to build something together.

That was the moment I thought, “Oh, this is the time.” I had a good idea and a co-founder with skill sets that complemented mine. That’s when I decided to take a leap of faith and do it together. It was really about the timing more than anything else.

Paulo: I think it’s great to always have that kind of partner in crime who builds confidence in whatever idea you have. You also have a third co-founder, Ruoyun. Maybe you can share a little bit about how she came into the picture?

Trasy: Definitely. Ruoyun actually met us a few months after we started Fluid. At that time, we were talking to different VCs about the idea. One common area they brought up was, “Hey, you need a CFO on your team who understands debt financing.” 

Which is true. My background is in commercial and operations. When I was at Atome, I focused a lot on expansion, growth, and ensuring operations ran smoothly, while the debt financing side was handled by the group CFO. 

I wanted to learn more about that area, and a friend introduced us. I found her very talented and knowledgeable. She used to be the head of Asia at Lendable, a private credit fund. When I needed someone with that skill set, she really popped up in my life through a friend. So we decided to ask Ruoyun to join our journey.

Paulo: It started out as a mentor role, and then eventually she joined as a co-founder after sharing a lot of experience, right?

Trasy: Exactly. And it was crucial to have a CFO, especially given the nature of our business. In B2B, much larger sums of money flow through the platform.

From my experience at Atome, I know that other competitors often got stuck at growth because they couldn’t raise debt financing. That’s a key success factor. At Atome, they were able to raise quite a bit of money to fund the loan book, which allowed them to compete without too much of a burden. We want to ensure that’s possible for Fluid as well.

Paulo: Definitely. It’s a stumbling block for many lending fintechs. Sometimes, it becomes such a constraint that they end up starting their own digital bank to manage their liabilities and assets.

Fluid’s First Client and First VC

Paulo: I was also curious about the early days of Fluid. I’m always interested in the first few days or the first hundred days of a startup journey. What were those like, trying to put things together?

Trasy: The first 100 days—wow, it was a lot of VC meetings. We decided to start raising funds on the first day we incorporated the company. We knew we were in a lending business, so we needed equity to really fund the business and, at the same time, to raise debt financing. 

So, there were lots of VC meetings. But what was most interesting is that we always worked in my condo’s function room because it was free of charge. We could go there to have meetings together. It was really fun—just the three of us, plus two engineers, and we had some friends working part-time for us because they knew we were just starting out. 

Although, it wasn’t really part-time work; they were helping us for free because they believed in our journey. We were very thankful for these friends who were really fighting alongside us in those first 100 days. We were able to launch our MVP quite early on and secure our first client within the first month of starting. That was really amazing.

Paulo: Maybe you can talk about that first client. What was the biggest lesson from that first onboarding, and how did that translate into securing more clients down the road?

Trasy: It’s actually a pretty interesting story. Before I even started Fluid, I was doing some research because we were thinking about the idea but wanted to validate it with potential customers in APAC. I was doing my lead generation and found Eezee, a B2B marketplace in Singapore.

I just LinkedIn messaged Logan, the founder, and said, “Hey, I’m thinking about this idea. Do you want to have a coffee chat to share your challenges?” He immediately said yes. I was like, “Wow, this person is so nice to come out for a coffee chat based on just one message from me.” 

During that first chat, he told me about the challenges he was facing, particularly in securing financing and providing credit terms to clients seamlessly. He basically validated my idea and encouraged me to build Fluid. He even promised that if I built it, he would buy it. And he fulfilled that promise by becoming one of our first few clients.

Paulo: That’s quite interesting. So you were already having that conversation with Logan even before starting Fluid, and it eventually paid off as you developed the product. Eezee is also an Insignia Ventures portfolio company, so it’s interesting to see those small world moments where you have partnerships and synergies happening.

Trasy: Definitely. Logan has been super helpful. He even acted as a reference to Insignia when you guys invested. 

Paulo: So I guess it all came together. Eezee and Fluid actually share a similar thesis about how the world should work in terms of B2B supply chains, payments, and purchases. 

Trasy: It all lined up. Logan actually sent me his VC list and said, “Hey, which ones do you want to talk to?” He introduced me to you guys, and we talked in the very beginning. Unfortunately, in my first round, you guys did not invest in me, but that’s okay.

It was after we raised our first round that one of my angels connected me with Tim, who is on the IC of Insignia. But when I met him, I didn’t know that. I was just sharing our business because he’s a friend of my angel, and Tim is also an angel himself.

So I was just sharing what our business is about. Then he went to Europe, and when he came back after two months, we talked again. He realized that we had learned a lot more about our product since we first talked. 

Because of that, I think he brought our idea to the Insignia team. From there, we shared more with the team, met Yinglan one-on-one, went through the IC process, and got the term sheet within two weeks. It was really such a blessing, especially in this funding environment, to be able to move so quickly. 

I’m very thankful for Insignia being our lead VC for this round. The experience has been great. The team has been very helpful—they even worked over the weekend to talk to some of our potential or existing clients. I was like, “Wow, this VC firm works really hard.” 

At that time, we were also having other ICs going on, but we knew this was the bet we wanted to make. You guys made a bet on us so quickly that I couldn’t say no. You gave us a term sheet just the week before my family and I went on holiday for Christmas. It was such a great Christmas gift. 

All the other VCs were on holiday and couldn’t talk to us until January. So, we knew this was the partner we wanted to work with because you guys moved fast, asked great questions during the IC, and have been very helpful.

Bringing Consumer-Level Fluidity to B2B Payment Experiences

Paulo: I want to shift now and delve into the business of Fluid. Going back to your background in BNPL and the B2C side, the thesis of Fluid has been to bring that consumer experience of payment and financing into B2B payments and commerce transactions. 

Maybe you can start by sharing with our listeners how much of that B2C experience in BNPL translates into B2B, and how that impacts the business model now that it’s more on the B2B side of things.

Trasy: At first, I thought they were very similar, but they’re totally different for a few reasons. The first is how we manage risk. On the B2C side, we collect a lot of data points, allowing us to provide instant credit risk decisioning. 

However, in the B2B space, traditional lenders, including banks, primarily look at financials and bank statements. The technology for open banking isn’t very mature, or some countries haven’t even opened up to it yet. 

So, providing seamless, instant credit decisions isn’t as simple as we initially thought. We had to be creative. At Fluid, we built our risk model powered by the supplier’s repayment data from the buyers as a reference point. This approach helps us make quicker decisions. That’s one of the first lessons we learned.

The second lesson is that while B2C models can be very similar across different countries and industries, B2B is vastly different. The way business buyers pay suppliers or distributors and how transactions occur vary greatly from one industry to another. 

We’ve had to customize our product for different industries to scale quickly and enable buyers and sellers to transact seamlessly. Those are the two main differences and learnings between B2C and B2B.

Paulo: You mentioned differences across industries. Could you illustrate that a bit more with an example?

Trasy: That’s a good question. When we first started Fluid, we were industry-agnostic. We sent out a lot of emails and made calls to see which industries would pick up our model. 

We found that FMCG was one where we gained a lot of traction, as well as F&B, like meat suppliers selling to restaurants. However, in these industries, they don’t typically pay invoice by invoice. They only pay upon proof of delivery.

Surprisingly, it’s still very traditional, with a three-color copy system. Once the goods are delivered, the driver gets one copy, the seller another, and the buyer keeps the last one. 

In contrast to B2C, where you might purchase online and pay later by installment, in B2B, there’s a lot of documentation. And with that, there’s also a lot of disputes—like, “Did my chicken arrive?” or “One chicken is spoiled, so I’m not going to pay for that.” 

That’s why, when working with the FMCG industry, we had to streamline the payment process. On the other hand, in the professional services industry, the buyer pays by invoice, and invoices don’t happen every day—maybe once a quarter. 

So, our product has to cater to that, like milestone payments, where, for example, a marketing firm might pay 50% before a project starts and the remaining 50% after. Each industry requires a different approach, and it’s been fascinating to navigate the B2B world.

Paulo: That’s interesting. I’m curious about how this impacts your product development prioritization and operations since there are so many different considerations, cadences, and terms across industries. How do you prioritize across these different industries?

Trasy: One of our guiding principles in building the product is that we don’t build until multiple customers, especially bigger ones, ask for it. 

This approach is crucial because it ensures we’re building what customers actually want, not just what we think they want. There’s a fundamental difference between the two.

We prioritize based on the impact on the business and our overall strategy. For example, we want to be the leader in FMCG payments, so we focus our energy on enabling seamless transactions between buyers and sellers in that space. 

One of the reasons we were able to secure a deal with Coca-Cola was because they noticed that we could build products tailored to their needs. They were struggling to find a payment partner to solve their issues because the products available on the market weren’t suitable for their industry. 

So, our prioritization comes from what customers demand and the impact it will have on our business.

Paulo: So, very customer-first. You mentioned Coca-Cola, which I wanted to discuss. It’s one of Fluid’s more prominent milestones over the past few months. Could you share a bit about the experience of bringing them on board and what this partnership means for Fluid’s future?

Trasy: The whole team was thrilled when we signed the deal with Coca-Cola. Having them as a strategic partner makes it a lot easier for us to introduce Fluid to distributors and buyers. Our product is used by Coca-Cola’s distributors to sell products to buyers, allowing them to pay seamlessly with different flexible payment methods.

We’re solving a significant problem for Coca-Cola, where their sales representatives spend a lot of time on collections, and drivers are collecting cash, but the distributors don’t always get the money back. 

With Fluid, they can collect payments digitally through a QR code, enabling Coca-Cola’s sales team and distributors to focus on selling more products rather than chasing payments.

The partnership began as just an idea. I met someone from Coca-Cola at a networking event and asked if they had this problem. Six months later, he reached out and said they did. I had been keeping in touch every couple of months, but it was great to see the idea turn into something real. 

We used Coca-Cola’s feedback to scale our product with other FMCG distributors, even in Singapore and Malaysia, because the problems are common across regions. Their feedback, along with workshops we conducted on the ground, really helped us build a product that catered to their needs.

Paulo: It’s interesting because this partnership could also provide a template for future distribution of Fluid’s services. Instead of focusing on individual buyer-supplier transactions, you can tackle a whole set within a multinational group like Coca-Cola. It’s an interesting approach to go-to-market strategy. 

With Coca-Cola, you have a strong relationship now. What do you think about customer success and maintaining these relationships with customers and partners at Fluid?

Trasy: Customer-first is key, and one of our core cultural values is to build for the long term. When customers give us feedback, we think about how that solution will look long-term and whether we can solve their issues in the long run. That’s how we start.

Another cultural value we have is to aim high and make magic for our clients. This value is ingrained in our commercial and account management teams. We always aim to delight our customers with solutions they might not have expected.

The Culture and Talent Needed to Revolutionize B2B Payments

Paulo: You started talking about values, and I’m curious to know more about how you’re building Fluid as an organization. I can sense that many of your values are customer-first. Could you talk about how those values influence the rest of the company culture, including how you hire and retain people at Fluid?

Trasy: Thanks for asking. I believe that we need guiding principles in our culture and in how we work together. When we had just five team members, we had already finalized our values to ensure that everyone was aligned when they work.

We mentioned earlier about building for the long term. Whenever we build a product, we think about its long-term impact on the customer. The second value is “aim high, make magic.” We want everyone to be creating something magical here. 

We don’t want to do something easy; we want to solve hard problems and revolutionize the B2B payment industry.

Regarding how we work, we have a few principles. Number one is “always be thriving.” We want to ensure that people do what they love because that’s when they thrive. 

Everyone needs to be in a position where they enjoy their work and can see the impact they’re making on the organization. When that happens, they thrive. As leaders, it’s our responsibility to provide an environment and foundation for our team members to thrive.

The fourth value is “win together.” We want to ensure that whenever we have success, we celebrate it as a team. We also have an individual value called “own it.” These two are somewhat related. We want every individual to own their KPIs and their projects, taking full ownership. But when we win, we bring the whole team together to celebrate.

Lastly, we have “integrity in every action.” Especially in our business, which involves handling money, we want to ensure integrity in everything we do. We aim to be trusted by our clients.

Paulo: I’ve noticed that you’ve been steadily growing the team over the past few months, and I’ve seen LinkedIn posts welcoming new team members. How have these values attracted the talent you’re looking for, and how do you approach hiring at Fluid?

Trasy: Definitely. Number one, we’re looking for ambitious hustlers who want to grow and aim high. That’s deeply ingrained in our hiring process. 

One of the things I always emphasize to myself and my team is to hire for potential, not just experience. We look for individuals who want to grow with us and unleash their potential at Fluid. We want them to own what they do and provide feedback on how we can build a better product.

One of the processes we have with our product and sales teams is to bring new features to our clients and ask, “Is this what you want? How do you feel about it?” 

We don’t launch anything without customer feedback. That’s how we embed our cultural values into our hiring and our daily work.

Paulo: If anyone is interested in joining Fluid, I’m leaving Trasy’s LinkedIn in the description below. Be sure to reach out to her or any of the leaders at Fluid. I’m sure they’ll be happy to chat. Even if you don’t have the experience, as you mentioned, if you have that drive to make magic, then don’t be afraid to reach out.

Trasy: Absolutely. We’ve had fresh graduates join us, and they’re doing really well. We have a team member in BD who just joined fresh off the boat about one or two months ago, and they’re already closing some pretty big deals. We’re very happy to identify and nurture young talent at Fluid.

Reflections on the Future and the Past

Paulo: With all these young talents and the team growing, where do you see Fluid heading in the next year or so? You mentioned that you’re focusing a lot on becoming a leader in FMCG payments. Could you break that down for us and explain what that looks like in the coming year?

Trasy: In 2023, when we first launched, we focused on our checkout product. When you visit a B2B website to make a purchase, you can instantly get credit terms or split your purchase into installments. That was our first product, which is very similar to the B2C buy now, pay later model. 

This year, we’ve evolved to seamlessly connect to any ERP or accounting system. This means that any approved buyer’s transaction can be financed even before the invoice is issued, allowing them to purchase on credit terms through their ERP.

Our product is mainly focused on the FMCG industry. By the end of this year, we plan to expand our product into two new industries. While I can’t disclose them just yet, one is quite similar to FMCG with high purchase frequency and low value, and the other involves less frequent purchases. The concept and risk model are similar, though the products differ slightly.

Next year, we will focus on using these two products to expand into other markets. Currently, we’re in Singapore and Malaysia, and next year we aim to enter one or two more countries. 

We’re also working on a product that caters to all the buyers we’ve acquired, often with minimal cost. This product will allow them to pay their suppliers later. 

Right now, our go-to-market strategy is supplier-focused, enabling buyers to pay later. But with this new product, we want to help them use Fluid to pay other suppliers not currently in our network.

And beyond that, in 2025, we’ll look into import and export pay later. This will allow businesses to use our service even when importing goods into Singapore, Malaysia, or other countries while being based in the U.S. or elsewhere. This is how we plan to increase the addressable market for Fluid, and I’m very excited about this pathway.

Paulo: It sounds like you’re moving in multiple directions—geographically, by industry, and even in expanding the product itself. It’s becoming more than just BNPL, covering a wide range of payment use cases that buyers and suppliers encounter in their day-to-day operations. 

Before we move into our rapid fire round, I wanted to zoom out and discuss what this venture means to you personally, especially since this is your first venture as an entrepreneur. 

You mentioned earlier that this is something you’ve always wanted to do and that you were waiting for the right time and the right people. What does it mean to you now to be in the midst of building Fluid?

Trasy: Personally, I’ve really enjoyed my journey so far. There have been ups and downs and surprises, but I’ve enjoyed every single moment. 

When I first started, I thought I could control my time better as an entrepreneur. However, you quickly realize that there’s so much to do, and you end up having much less time. 

One of the key alignments among us co-founders is to go big or go home. We truly want to revolutionize the B2B payment industry with Fluid, allowing businesses to pay now, pay on delivery, or pay later seamlessly—anytime, anywhere. 

That’s our vision, and we’re working to make the surrounding workflows so seamless that purchasing supplies feels as instant and convenient as shopping on platforms like Shopee or Lazada.

Paulo: That’s an interesting mission, and it ties into the broader mission of many other B2B businesses we’re seeing, which is improving e-commerce for B2B across the board. 

People like Logan are building their own sections of this as well, and it’s fascinating to see everyone pushing this forward. I call it the “smartphonization” of B2B—making things much more efficient.

Trasy: Exactly. The consumer side of e-commerce has evolved so much, yet there’s still so much cumbersome paperwork in B2B. It just doesn’t make sense in the 21st century.