Osamu Abe shares stories and insights from his career of nearly 30 years at MUFG from investment banking to taking an executive education on Sand Hill Road, later on setting up MUFG’s first international CVC fund then MUFG’s first spin out growth debt and equity funds (Mars Growth Capital and Mars Equity), and finally continuing to work with startups as Chief of Staff for Asia Pacific. 

Timestamps

(01:15) Intro to startups and venture;

(03:43) How Japanese corporates have evolved in their approach to venture investment globally;

(10:44) How MUFG spun out Mars Growth Capital and Equity, and Abe-san’s views on the real value of venture debt;

(20:36) Abe-san’s views on the impact of the Japan Southeast Asia corridor on adoption of emerging technologies;

(23:40) Advice for founders on working with Japanese corporates;

(26:36) Advice on developing corporate governance for startups;

(29:39) What Abe-san has learned from leading and managing several venture funds through the years;

(32:42) Rapid Fire Round;

About Mr. Osamu Abe

Mr. Osamu Abe was appointed Chief of Staff for Asia Pacific for MUFG Bank in May 2025. Based in Singapore, he is responsible for managing the safety and soundness of the bank’s branch operations — which include risk, compliance, and regulatory matters — across 17 markets in South-east Asia, East Asia (including China), South Asia (including India) and Oceania.

Prior to the current appointment, Mr. Abe was CEO and board member of Mars Equity M.C. Pte. Ltd. where he oversaw the launch of investment activity at the $500-million growth equity fund based in Singapore. He also served as the board member of Mars Growth Capital, a startup debt fund with total commitment of $1 billion. Mr. Abe will continue to serve on the Boards of the two entities.

Mr. Abe has over 28 years of extensive experience in corporate & investment banking through senior postings across MUFG’s global network. When he relocated to Singapore in 2023, Mr. Abe was appointed Managing Director and Deputy Head of Global Corporate & Investment Banking (GCIB) for Asia Pacific, where he was responsible for managing MUFG’s global corporate client portfolio and oversaw all governance and control aspects of this business across the region.

Prior to that, he was the Managing Director of the Bank’s GCIB Planning Division in Tokyo, a position he held since 2019. He was a senior member of MUFG Americas’ GCIB Planning Division in New York in 2017 where he supported the implementation of the region’s strategic plan and drove key initiatives. Mr. Abe also held roles with the Human Resources Office and Global Planning Division’s Strategic Planning department in Tokyo, and Global Credit Liaison.

He began his career in 1997 with the then Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi’s Nihonbashi Corporate Banking Office, followed by his first overseas assignment in 2001 with the European Business Division in London.

Mr. Abe holds a Master of Science in Business from Stanford University Graduate School of Business and Bachelor of Law from Tokyo University.

Directed by Paulo Joquiño

Produced by Paulo Joquiño

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The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only, should not be taken as legal, tax, or business advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security, and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Insignia Ventures⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ fund. Any and all opinions shared in this episode are solely personal thoughts and reflections of the guest and the host.

Transcript

Paulo: I had the chance to meet our guest just a few weeks ago at the Japan Southeast Asia Market Forum, which is a great gathering of founders, corporate leaders, executives, innovators—people from all across the region who are very interested in strengthening the Japan-Southeast Asia innovation corridor. I met our guest there and had a quick chat. I was really interested in his background and his journey, going from investment banking to starting a venture debt fund and all those things. 

And now, he is very active as well, looking at startups and innovation and things like that. I’m very happy to have with me Osamu Abe, who is the MUFG Chief of Staff for APAC. Thank you very much, Osamu, for joining me on call.

Osamu Abe: Thank you. Thanks for having me. I’m doing well.

Paulo: Great. And you’re dialing in from Singapore, which you call your home and office for this particular role. But you’ve had quite an extensive career across many geographies and many different functions.

Abe-san’s Career Journey and Initial Exposure to Venture Capital

Paulo: Maybe you can share a little bit—since our podcast and our show is really about startups and venture capital—what was the first role you had where you were exposed to the venture capital asset class and investing in startups?

Osamu Abe: Yeah, thank you again for having me. This is my 29th year with the bank since 1997. My first encounter actually was at Stanford. I was there at the Graduate School of Business for a one-year executive full-time program, and I graduated in 2013. There were people like Eric Schmidt and other prominent investors whom I didn’t really know at the time. 

Because I was sponsored by the bank and knew I was coming back to investment and large corporate banking, I wish I had learned more about the startup ecosystem and how it works. But I had very good exposure to the whole community and culture—how they connect with each other and how these elevator pitches work, as we learned about and experienced throughout our class. So that was the closest I got to investing, honestly. And then, for the next 10 years, I was away from it.

And then we decided to go into India, setting up a 300 million startup fund. I was involved in establishing that. Years later, we started establishing another external joint venture fund, which is not a growth fund but an equity fund. I later ended up being the CEO of the equity investment fund. Around 2020, my commute to India started. I’ve been on stage and attended all three GSS—the Global FinTech Festival in Mumbai. This year, I switched over to the Singapore FinTech Festival, where I met you. It’s been a great journey, but my intensive exposure has really been in the last five years.

Paulo: It’s been quite a journey. You’ve been with the bank, as you mentioned, since ’97. That was around the time I was born, so it really puts things into perspective for me, at least. It’s been quite the career. You had those periods when you were at Stanford, then you set up the India fund, and now you set up Mars Growth. Throughout that time, I guess you weren’t as involved in it for most of it, only in the last five years, as you mentioned.

Japan’s Role in the Global Startup Ecosystem

Paulo: But what have been your observations in terms of how Japanese corporates and Japanese banks like MEFG play a role in the whole venture and startup ecosystem globally?

Osamu Abe: Yeah, I think as the largest financial institution in Japan, our larger thoughts behind all this are: how do we keep supporting the Japanese economy and extend it to APAC, really? So, if you look at it, Japan itself has gone through an industry cycle. We started maybe from steelmaking to shipbuilding, to electrics, to car manufacturing. 

And there’s this concept of long-term employment. So, there was little room for youngsters to jump off and start their own companies; really, it wasn’t a thing until, I don’t know, five or ten years ago. But then we thought, okay, as the economy matures and the industry cycle continues, now it’s a good thing that all these ASEAN countries and other markets are booming with manufacturing and all that. How should Japan continue its growth cycle, right?

And what we said was, okay, hold on. Think about the post-war economy—Sony, Honda. These really started as small startups built by the younger generation. So, I think it’s a common understanding and goal, supported also by the government, that we should support the startup ecosystem in Japan.

Then, if we look just outside, at how invigorated the ASEAN plus India South market is, I think it’s natural that Japanese companies started to think about CVCs and then search for opportunities either domestically or outside Japan to support these up-and-coming startups which would bring technology, new industries, and most importantly, the growth that we as a mature economy are lacking—partly because of topography and other reasons. 

But it was, in a way, very natural for many of the large Japanese corporates and investors to look outside, to look at the growing economy. If you look at GDP growth, demography is so important, right?

And so, as we did that, I think the Tokyo Stock Exchange and other government policies, economy, and industries did a good job of really trying to change the Japan market itself to focus more on these new, up-and-coming opportunities and support them with a new market, a new stock market, inviting ASEAN companies to list on the Tokyo Stock Exchange. And of course, that was the main purpose of the event that we met at.

Paulo: Yeah, yeah. I think with the movement of institutions like the Tokyo Stock Exchange, it completes the pipeline that MUFG has been investing in over the years. I had a quick follow-up question because I’m curious. 

You mentioned the India Fund, which you were in charge of with respect to investing in startups outside of Japan or looking at the startup ecosystem outside of Japan. Was India the first international fund that you started, or what was the first fund internationally that you guys set up?

Osamu Abe: We started off by setting up a CVC fund in Tokyo, which looks at the US and other external markets as well. Being a CVC, this is mainly for the purpose of growing collaborative opportunities. Naturally, they tend to focus on FinTech, right? They are now into their second and third funds. So that’s that.

Then, we also set up the Ganesha Fund, which is a $300 million India fund. We had a slightly different perspective, so we said, okay, since it’s a fund, economic return is important. But this is also a way for us to enter the market beyond commercial banks in India. Although we did invest in local commercial banks in Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam, and the Philippines—these all have good demographics and strong GDP growth—the next obvious choice was India.

But we jumped to the next stage of finance, which is FinTech. So we invested in the Ganesha Fund, and outside of that, DMI is another consumer finance company in which we invested 10 to 20%. The thought there was, maybe we can enjoy the growth together or learn from the new technologies and new markets and bring that knowledge back to our home ground in Japan.

One other important aspect was helping to bank the unbanked. For instance, in the case of DMI, half of their customers were new to finance and credit—they either had no bank accounts or had never been offered a credit line or credit card. This was device finance, such as Samsung phones, so this was their first chance to experience and gain access to a financial history, if you will. That kind of transfer also applies to other markets.

We have now set up the Garuda Fund, a $100 million fund in Indonesia as well. So those are the types of investment funds we have. Additionally, we invest directly in other FinTech companies like GC, Aku, Home Credit, and in many cases, these investments are for learning. Again, FinTech is the up-and-coming way of finance, and it also helps the wider population within the economy. That should work for us eventually because, of course, we are invested in retail networks and local banking institutions in those economies.

I think, on a larger scale, we are there with a long-term vision to help these populations and economies, as well as our partner entities.

Paulo: So I think it’s really about investing in the demographic dividend of these emerging markets, and I would also say the technology dividend as well. I think there’s a lot of value there for MUFG over the years. The reason I asked about the motivation for the CVC is because it leads into Mars Growth Capital and Venture Debt.

The spin-out, which you became CEO of, is Mars Equity and Mars Growth Capital. I would love for you to share a little bit about the thinking behind that, versus just sticking to the CBC game. How does this add value within the broader ecosystem of manufacturing investments into innovation and startups?

Osamu Abe: This is not just investing but also lending as well. Mars actually started out as a debt offering. We saw a niche that no one else offered, which is non-dilutive financing. So we didn’t ask for warrants or any part of the equity. I saw there was a demand for growth financing, especially in this growing economy. If your revenue grows 50% or 100%, then multiplied by a 20x valuation, right? People are eager to get that funding and grow their business right before an IPO, but without using their own holdings.

I think we found a good opportunity there. Combined with the liquidity from our partner company, this was really AI before AI became popular, I think. Basically, it crunches numbers and sometimes has an initial real-time connection into your CRMs and bank accounts. Then there’s automated scoring, which accounts for about 60% of the decision-making. The other 30 to 40% is expert judgment. Once the information is shared, we can typically offer you a term sheet within 24, 48, or 72 hours. This really helped us increase the speed of decision-making and communication.

It worked well for the clients too. We started in the middle of COVID at $80 million, which became $200 million, then $500 million. Now it’s a $1 billion commitment fund, single line by Mars, with no losses over four years. That’s been a great story. So we then said, okay, it went so well, let’s do an equity offering as well. That’s Mars’ drug and fund $500 million offering, which also employs a bit of that AI engine.

This is not just FinTech; we invest in B2C companies and InsureTech. Oftentimes, in both debt and equity cases, what we can offer is access to our existing clients as well as our licensed partner banks in very important demographics in Southeast Asia. That’s one aspect. Then, let’s say if you’re a FinTech serving other financial institutions, we can connect you to existing industry standards, governance, and all. So that’s a window into the existing ecosystem and network. I think that’s what we offer.

We actually started that in the Americas as well. You might remember the Silicon Valley Bank saga. During that weekend or week, our Head of Americas, Kevin Crony, happened to be traveling on the West Coast. He heard about the news, went over, and shook hands with the team. We have now onboarded about 30 Silicon Valley-backed teams who are offering what we call emerging tech debt offerings as well. They continue to offer their knowledge and Sand Hill Road connectivity.

So, we’re trying to be the connection between up-and-coming startups and the older system, if you will. Because I think increasingly, during this time of AI and data-driven everything happening so quickly, everyone is searching for answers in terms of how to make sure governance works, KYC, regulation, and all that. There is so much nuance and history, as well as the brand we’ve built over time. We’re really trying to make sure we can offer some value there to any of our partners and investee companies.

Paulo: Again, congratulations on the performance of the Venture Debt fund, and I think the continued expansion of this vehicle across multiple geographies. Even in Southeast Asia, venture debt wasn’t really a thing until maybe five years ago, around the pandemic, when equity funding really took a hit and startups had to look for other pathways for financing. Folks like Mars were already there to provide that option.

So, how do you see venture debt—or even just pure debt—as a pathway for startups these days? You mentioned Mars serving as a bridge between startups and more established growth companies looking to IPO. But even for the earlier-stage companies, how do you see that pathway evolving? For example, if you’re a business that deals primarily with lending, or if you’re an e-commerce aggregator that needs a lot of capital injections, would that suffice? From that perspective, depending on the business model, how do you see that evolving?

Osamu Abe: So, having us on the capital table offers, again, our experience. I used to wear t-shirts and jeans all year round. But as an entity and investor, we can’t change who we are. We’re pretty strict when it comes to governance, KYC, regulation, and certain industries. Whatever service you provide, if your client falls into a certain category and they’re regulated, right?

These days, for US banks, for instance, third-party risk management (TPRM) is a big focus for regulators. Any one of these institutions, if they’re your clients, are tasked with making sure their vendors do the right thing and don’t spread confidential information. Governance and all that. We can certainly be the advisor and sounding board when it comes to understanding expectations. 

Sometimes you’re asked 20 different questions, and things never seem to progress. You wonder, are we okay, or do they just hate us? They don’t hate us. We can tell you from our experience that they’re probably doing what’s right for them and what they’re required to do.

I think there are tons of different nuances and perspectives. Part of the reason many successful FinTech services or services that serve these institutions are run, founded, or advised by ex-bankers and industry veterans is because of this. In my view, maybe more so in this area in APAC. It’s a small world; we bump into ex-bankers and people we know all the time. There’s a reason for that.

Regarding the structure of the market and how we grow in this environment, the government plays a bigger role, I think, in Japan as well as many Southeast Asian economies. We see how active the government is, for instance, in Singapore. 

We work with them on many fronts and projects. I even saw this in Paris, France. I was at the Viva event, maybe some of you know it, in Paris. It was also heavily sponsored by the French government. President Macron used their AI or startup minister 12 years ago, I think. That’s when they started that initiative. The sponsorship relationship between large corporations like Louis Vuitton and many prominent French companies supports the startup ecosystem.

So, there’s a similarity in these markets. Any government and regulators really want their country’s startup ecosystem to be vibrant. They want to support it. But whenever large corporations and governments get involved, there are certain expectations regarding your behavior and governance. 

Frankly, I think this may affect the speed of development. But in a way, it’s a good thing because you are doing things right the first time around rather than having to come back and get things under control after something goes wrong.

I think all in all, there would be some benefit in learning from having us involved—letting us help you either through financing, investing, or even just as an advisor to your clients and so on.

Paulo: I really love how you reframed this whole conversation around thinking beyond just the capital itself, and what value can be derived from simply being a part of the network that you guys have built. 

Governance, AI, and Emerging Technologies

And speaking of the importance of the role of government and corporations laying down the foundations, as you mentioned, how do you see that with respect to Japan and ASEAN for technologies like energetic AI, which you mentioned? I mean, Mars has had that kind of AI plugged into its fund before, but yeah, emerging technologies like energetic AI or blockchain—how do you see this particular corridor driving more innovation in those spaces moving forward?

Osamu Abe: So maybe in two ways. One is, of course, the technology and knowledge exchange. The second is capital flow. 

First, the technology: as a Japanese, I’d like to think that Japan still has that edge and a lot of creative ideas and inventions really to sell into other markets. But we’ll see. I think there’s definitely a whole pool of deep research by the larger corporates, right? 

And again, because of some of the labor market situations historically, those inventions have come from those corporate labs and researchers. One area of which is net zero, the environment, hydrogen technologies, and all that. So we’re working really closely with companies and the government as well to figure out how we deploy that technology and how we finance and structure the finance towards renewable electricity across the region as well. So there’s some technology exchange.

And then, in terms of capital flow, again, there’s naturally a demand and interest from Japanese investors to go outside, just because Japan itself is a mature market. And just from the demography and sheer growth of the economy, sometimes it makes sense at least to diversify into faster-growing markets. And then the other way around, of course, is—as I mentioned earlier and touched on—the market reform. So Japanese markets and companies in general are much more mindful of capital returns, a little bit shorter-term returns, right? And that’s also important for the capital market as well, I think. 

So the yen rate is coming back a little bit. So all in all, I’m hearing a lot of interest from investors, outside investors, on how they can approach Japan. And it’s not always easy to look from outside and figure out how to solve Japan, if you will, right? That’s why, as the largest financial institution, we’re trying our best to bring in the capital and then to offer good Japan investment opportunities for outside investors as well.

Advice for Founders and Building Relationships with Japanese Corporates

Paulo: You did mention, I guess, the nuances of investors coming in to, quote unquote, “solve Japan.” I wonder if you also have similar advice or other advice specifically for founders who are looking to work with Japanese corporates and MUFG. What are some of the common misconceptions they may have when it comes to building these relationships?

Osamu Abe: I’m not sure about misconceptions, but there’s this patient part, right? Again, it’s not always a bad thing. We tend not to rush things. But once we set our mind to it, after going through the conversation, getting to know each other, and asking tons of questions, when the time comes and something is decided, we’re pretty long-term thinkers and stable in terms of executing our agenda and partnership.

So that’s one part of it. We tend to like to keep things clean, with a lot of governance from the onset. From that point, it might help to have mature investors or advisory events in your supporting ecosystem—people who know about and have dealt with these kinds of expectations. How do we go about structuring that governance? What is it? It’s not that difficult; it’s just about doing it in the right order.

I think the AI revolution is also coming to that part of our work. So, yeah, I think it helps to digest and then translate for you what it means to crack open, if you will, the Japan market. Of course, as MUFG, we also try to be that partner. We have banks, securities firms, a trust bank, investor services— all these different functions we can combine.

It could be other reputable institutions as well. It might be much easier if you have that key Japanese partner at your board table or, again, as an advisor or partner. Once people see the name MUFG, they think, “Okay, let’s listen, let’s talk.”

I think we’ve tried to build that kind of brand and trust, valued by the fact that we team up with certain startups or partner with certain businesses. I believe we’ve built a certain reputation and experience in dealing with many such investors.

Paulo: Yeah, I guess really making that initial step—putting your foot in the door, so to speak. And I think looking at things from an ecosystem perspective—how one relationship can lead to another, and so on.

You mentioned something interesting about governance and AI, and I wonder what your thoughts are for earlier-stage startups that may have constraints on cash, talent, or even time. What would your advice be for them in terms of developing governance and risk management, especially if they, for example, set out to partner with you guys and expand to Japan?

Osamu Abe: The chances are, I think these are, by definition, oftentimes standardized—all these expectations, right? Sometimes it’s rigid law or certain guidelines, guardrails, what do you call it? So that means chances are other peers have already experienced it, or there are people out there who’ve done it, seen it, or even were on the governance side of it. So I think, again, this requires some cost—maybe if you go external—but this is about you. I’m sure, I feel like you can buy time by going to external help. 

And then again, if you have such persons or such connections among your equity table, that means instant help. Because, again, they’re on board with your business. I think you literally see those advisory boards oftentimes; if you go onto prominent startup websites, right, they do put their names up as part of their advisory board. I can understand because it’s both direct help as well as, again, people seeing it on your website builds reputation.

“I know this guy. My friend knows him.” And that’s where the connection and the trust of building starts. Yeah, going external is never a bad idea. And then a lot of knowledge is built and held by the industry. I’m sure there’s a whole industry for risk governance in certain parts of KYC as well. 

Of course, some of the services themselves are trying to crack open the governance itself, let’s say, okay? In which case, of course, your main job is to have a different look and maybe automate, maybe rationalize some of the processes—and that’s all good. Because, again, I think it’s ultimately good for everyone if we could do that. But that’s where people spend a lot of effort, time, and money. So I’m sure that in itself could become a good business as well if you are close to those supporters and investors.

Paulo: There’s a startup idea for those listening. Feel free to take it. And yeah, I mean, there’s definitely—I’m sure there are folks out there who would definitely need that kind of service and really automate some of the back-office work that goes into a lot of this compliance and governance. 

On that note, I just wanted to tie things back together before we head into our rapid-fire round and ask: As somebody who’s led several funds, the CEO for Mars and all that, how has being a CEO of these types of funds—which are very much looking at startups, fast-growing companies with a lot of uncertainty around how they’re set up and how they’re growing—how has that influenced your own kind of view as a professional, as an investment banking professional, as a finance professional, especially in your current role now?

Osamu Abe: Yeah, I would say, first of all, that was only last year—a full year—still fresh being in t-shirts and jeans every day, having chats with investors and other startup companies. I really miss it. It really taught me a lot about, of course, the ecosystem itself, but also about leadership and how new opportunities are built.

It’s really about looking at where growth actually ignites and happens. It’s easy for us, like big banks or economists, to say X percent GDP growth and all that. But these are the places where growth truly starts. For example, even just talking with Indian startups, they say if we survive one year, just by surviving, we’re going to grow 20%. And of course, we’re going to try to double or triple that. But that’s the mindset and the reality when the whole economy is growing and your industry is going up and up.

Yeah, it really tells you about always being on the lookout for new opportunities and new chances. At the same time, that might be disrupting our own business—our core business, banking—so I’m also open to it. We want to be very big on both sides. But again, I also saw that if a business is growing, that means ultimately it’s helping the whole economy or the consumer at least. So overall, it should be a good thing.

And as much as we have invested in the whole economy, it always comes around and helps our shareholders as well. So I think, hopefully, they would approve of us investing so much in what could be a disruption for our business. But again, I’ve seen the growth ignite as well as maybe the whole turning point of the finance industry. And how exciting is that?

Paulo: And certainly, I think there are a couple of turning points happening right now as we speak. We’ve talked about AI, we’ve talked about green energy, we’ve talked about blockchain as well. A lot of these things could be very consequential for the whole industry, and really, I think it’s important to be looking at them. But I think my main takeaway from this conversation is that you missed the shirt and the jeans.

Osamu Abe: And the coffee outside.

Paulo: On that note, I want to get into a rapid-fire round—just some quick questions, quick answers, short and sweet. First one: What’s the most memorable piece of advice given by a leader that you worked for or with?

Osamu Abe: I was the chief of staff for a long time, and someone said, “Okay, imagine having a third set of eyes, like a camera in the corner of the room looking at you.” At any one moment, you could almost be taken out of that heat of the moment, right? Maybe you’re depressed, overly optimistic, and all that. But his lesson was always to have that objective view of how you’re doing today, right? To have that longer-term or stable perspective. And that would make you a better manager overall. So that was one that kind of stuck with me.

Paulo: Yeah, I know. No, that’s great. It reminds me of another line: a great leader learns how to look through both a microscope and a telescope at the same time, which is very similar. Last time failure has helped you as a leader?

Osamu Abe: Okay. I won’t mention a specific occasion, but at one point, again, I was in charge of strategy, sitting at the head office and all that for a long time. I guess at one point, I might have become—like, “Don’t be a smart guy” is my one phrase. Like, of course, you gotta get down on your knees, roll up your sleeves, get to things, do things, get things done and all that. And it’s been said—Elon Musk says that, everyone says that. I think that was one lesson, in hindsight, if I look at my career. But I’m really glad that I did just that through being involved in startup investment.

Paulo: How do you de-stress? Any particular activity?

Osamu Abe: De-stress? This is Singapore. You jump in the pool all year. I run after work at Marina Bay with my colleagues, play tennis. Yeah, all the sports.

Paulo: Yeah, yeah. I think Singapore’s a great place to be doing all of that. And finally, what piece of pop culture—could be a movie, music, or book—has inspired you the most in your leadership?

Osamu Abe: Okay, this is a bad answer, but there was an old, stupid movie called Major League, right? This is so American—baseball and all that. I went to junior high in New York, America. I worked five, six years in California. So you see how these Hollywood movies are made because they’re like that. Okay. Just… and I think it’s about mentality, or for one, I want to get relaxed and entertained when I relax. So that’s one. Nothing complicated. But the second one is, there’s always tomorrow. You hit rock bottom, okay? You get into trouble, and generally speaking, I guess it either fits my personality or being grown up in America shaped my personality. But in any case, it’s okay, there’s always tomorrow, and things are not going to kill you. Okay? As I can see, maybe if you’re running a startup, you feel like everything’s against you, okay? This is the end of the world. It’s not. It’s not going to kill you, hopefully—or almost never, right? And there’s always ways to come back in. You just get it as it is, stand up, and tomorrow will be another day. I guess that’s the mantra. And that’s what I took away from that stupid movie.

Paulo: I mean, that stupid movie led to a mantra that, I guess, has really manifested in your career over the last—more than 20, nearing 30 years, right? And doing all of these things and continuing to be active in the startup ecosystem, especially more recently. Yeah.

And thank you once again, Abe-san, for joining us on this call and for a great conversation. Thank you for sharing and being very candid about all your stories—from your Stanford days to the whole SVB saga. Very interesting stuff. And all the work you’re doing now with startups and innovation. So, yeah, thank you. It was great to meet you in Singapore. Hope to meet you again in person soon. But in the meantime, thanks for joining us on this call.