We’re back with another Insignia Ventures Academy Afterthoughts episode where bring on alumni or mentors from the 12-week VC accelerator program. For this episode, we have another alumnus with us from Cohort One, the inaugural cohort of IVA, Harsh Rungta, who goes on call with us to talk about his transition from a decade-plus long career in banking to family office CEO, learnings from angel investing, and of course his experience at IVA.

About our guest

Harsh Vardhan Rungta is CEO of Carbon Graphite Advisors, a Singapore-based Indian family office. Harsh built his career in banking from Citibank to spending more than a decade at the Bank of Singapore as Managing Director, working with a lot of ultra-high net worth clients across South and Southeast Asia. Harsh is an angel investor with investments in startups across the globe and he is an alumnus of Cohort One of Insignia Ventures Academy’s VC Accelerator.

Highlights and Timestamps

(01:14) Intro to Harsh;“ …what I am really, really excited about is that finally there have been some meaningful exits…So therefore from that point of view now, as CEO [of a family office] what it also means from our family office perspective is that if an ecosystem is complete, you definitely get to see more deals in that ecosystem. And on the other side, as an investor, it also gives you an opportunity to encash some of your investments.”

(05:48) Rise of Southeast Asia Focused Family Offices from an Indian family office perspective; “So the network, patient capital — I think those are things generally that family offices would bring as LPs. But if the ticket is large and families understand that business, then I think they bring a whole lot in terms of even probably expertise from their own core business side, which could help the venture as well.”

(17:06) From Israel to Insignia Ventures Academy: Learnings from Angel Investing; “…what angel investing or getting into angel investing helped me demonstrate to my high net worth clients was thought leadership…And on the other side, how it helped startups or companies or businesses is that through my connections with the high net worth individuals and families, I was able to bring more capital to the table for some of these investments from like-minded investors.”

(22:44) Insignia Ventures Academy Afterthoughts; “What the stint did for me was it…has kind of made my interactions with founders and other players in the ecosystem much more credible, otherwise I would have been approaching them more like a real rookie, but this has brought in more substance to our discussions.”

(29:31) Rapid Fire Round;

Transcript

Paulo: Yeah, so to get right into it. So I wanted to kick things off and I usually ask this for all the alumni who come On Call with us — what excites you about Southeast Asia today, especially from the perspective of your role now with Carbon Graphite Advisors and managing the wealth of an Indian family office>

Harsh: Well, I think actually as the CEO of a family office, there are lots on my table to be excited about, but more specifically with regards to the Southeast Asia tech ecosystem, I think what I am really, really excited about is that finally there have been some meaningful exits. You had Grab, you had PropertyGuru, you had Bukalapak, you had GoTo, Sea Group, and many more in the pipeline.

Finally, this announces our arrival on the big stage, quite frankly, as a [region]. It closes the loop for the ecosystem and it reinforces investor confidence. So this is I think a big development that I’m really excited about. I feel it encourages more entrepreneurs to come and try out new things.

It brings new capital into the region. So it really, really makes the ecosystem so much more complete because it’s good to have a lot of startups, a lot of activity, and all of those things. But if you have no exits, then still you’re missing that final icing on the cake. 

So therefore from that point of view now, as CEO [of a family office] what it also means from our family office perspective is that if an ecosystem is complete, you definitely get to see more deals in that ecosystem. And on the other side, as an investor, it also gives you an opportunity to encash some of your investments. So that’s the thing I’ve been saying that I think it’s finally that point has come for Southeast Asia where you can talk about exits.

Paulo: I think that’s a really important point, especially given the current, global market climate that we have and why Southeast Asia still remains very active, at least in pulling in a lot of different capital. You have a lot of funds making their comebacks with new funds, you have global VCs also announcing funds specifically dedicated to Southeast Asia, and you have family offices like yourselves also making more of these investments into Southeast Asia startups in particular. And I think that’s largely in part due to what you just mentioned, which are all these exits and importantly public market exits, not just M&A exits as well.

Harsh: Just to be fair, irrespective of what happened after the exit let’s leave that aside, even if the stocks tanked or whatever happened, but the fact is that the exit happened.

“…what I am really, really excited about is that finally there have been some meaningful exits…So therefore from that point of view now, as CEO [of a family office] what it also means from our family office perspective is that if an ecosystem is complete, you definitely get to see more deals in that ecosystem. And on the other side, as an investor, it also gives you an opportunity to encash some of your investments.”

Rise of Southeast Asia-Focused Family Offices

Paulo: I was trying to avoid the whole discussion right there because it’s definitely another animal to tackle for sure. But just getting into that, as you mentioned, getting into that stage, proof of work, essentially that it can happen, can be really motivating for investors and founders. 

But before we get into that whole family office, getting into startups, kind of dynamic, I also wanted to talk about from your own personal career perspective, why did you decide having spent so many years already in Bank of Singapore to, at this point, transition into specifically a family office?

Harsh: I think I was very comfortable, doing what I was doing at Bank of Singapore. And I quite frankly enjoyed my entire journey where I saw the bank really grow and mature from being a real newbie in Asia to being an [presence] in Asia. But working for banks, or any large organization is a different ball game.

And I think now my reason for shifting to a family office kind of a setup was I think I found this to be more entrepreneurial in terms of freedom of decision making, the things that we could look at and do, and I could probably take charge of this and have the freedom to decide on those things.

And besides that is generally my belief that the Asian family office scene is where we are going to see a lot of exciting transactions happen in the future. And being an early mover in this space just gives me a head start.

“Now my reason for shifting to a family office kind of a setup was I think I found this to be more entrepreneurial in terms of freedom of decision making, the things that we could look at and do, and I could probably take charge of this and have the freedom to decide on those things.”

Paulo: So I guess in some ways there are a lot of similarities to what you were doing in Bank of Singapore, but again, it’s also very different. Maybe you can elaborate a little bit about that because when you were in Bank of Singapore, you were also talking to a lot of high network clients, and then you were also already angel investing into startups, which I think you now bring into this role as well in the family office.

Harsh: Yes. So I think similar, but the slight differences are banks are designed to be regulated entities, right? So they have a lot of restrictions and norms in terms of [what should be done] before they can put anything in front of the client and talk about those things. So scale or size becomes an issue sometimes.

Just the sheer requirement of a track record becomes an issue, but when you are a more independent setup, you have a bit more leeway in terms of if some of those parameters are not met. You still could consider a transaction because everything else about it looks very exciting. 

So there’s nothing right or wrong about it. Those institutions are meant to have those kinds of rules and guidelines for them to operate in, but a smaller setup means that you have slightly more flexibility and independence in decision making.

“…when you are a more independent setup, you have a bit more leeway in terms of if some of those parameters are not met. You still could consider a transaction because everything else about it looks very exciting.”

Paulo: So I wanted to zoom in now through this whole, I would say, phenomenon that we’re seeing in Southeast Asia that has been happening for several years. Now even before the pandemic, a lot of family offices [were] setting up in Singapore, for example, that normally weren’t in the region or a lot of like Chinese wealth that grew during the whole like tech boom there [were] now moving in Southeast Asia after the market in China has been saturated and not as vibrant as in Southeast Asia. 

And then now you have also Indian family offices that are interested in the region as well. So, from your view, how has this whole relationship between family offices and the whole venture landscape evolved over the past decade? And where do you see it going in the next few years?

Harsh: So I’ve seen a massive shift in mindset. You know if I were to rewind back to, let’s say, 15 years ago, I have literally seen portfolios with zero allocation to any venture capital investments, and even for large meaningful portfolios, there was very little allocation. So from that point fast forward to 2020, it almost became a “FOMO” where if you didn’t have a few startup investments that you could talk about at a cocktail party, you felt like, “Oh my gosh, I’m kind of nowhere in the scene. What am I doing?”

So that’s the sort of transition that literally has happened in a very casual manner if I were to describe it, but on a more serious note, from no allocation to meaningful, respectable allocation, respectable percentage allocation in the portfolio is what we have seen as a transition. 

For large, serious investors the private markets are not just conversation pieces, but they have respectable allocation in the portfolios. And as this demand has grown, at the same time banks, and other service providers have been also very quick to capture this shift in mindset and they’ve built capabilities to offer these investment opportunities. So from almost, I’d say being non-existent, it’s become central to discussions for most large portfolios and family offices.

“For large, serious investors the private markets are not just conversation pieces, but they have respectable allocation in the portfolios. And as this demand has grown, at the same time banks, other service providers have been also very quick to capture this shift in mindset and they’ve built capabilities to offer these investment opportunities.”

Paulo: So if you find yourself at a cocktail party still wondering why you don’t have any startup investments yet, then you know what’s up. 

So I also wanna talk about that “from no allocation to now a lot of meaningful allocation” that’s very central already to portfolios of many of these family offices.

And that relationship has also sort of changed right from it’s not just about investing as LPs, but you also see family offices directly investing into startups themselves, some raising rounds that are just completely filled with family offices. You don’t even see a VC or other investors there in some of these rounds. So what are your thoughts on that kind of evolution as well?

Harsh: So I generally think while some people may see it as threatening, some people may see that family offices may just crowd out some investments, but I think each investor category has its own strengths and it’s probably good to have all types of investors to deepen the overall ecosystem.

You should have VCs, family offices, angels because each of them brings something different to the table. And I think going forward, nobody should feel threatened by family offices now wanting to consider to be a part of the cap table. But I think, also to be fair, I don’t think any family office just wants to be a part of the cap table for the heck of it unless it’s an area which they understand very well or the investment is very sizeable. I don’t think they would just want to get into it for the heck of it.

“…each investor category has its own strengths and it’s probably good to have all types of investors to deepen the overall ecosystem. You should have VCs, family offices, angels because each of them brings something different to the table.”

Paulo: Actually I want to be a little bit more specific with that in terms of how the family office differentiates in terms of what they bring to the table as an investor, and what should founders look at when considering family offices to bring in as investors?

Harsh: See, I think for family offices, in most cases, if the tickets are not very large, they’re going to be more like LPs, which means that they bring in more passive, stable capital in a sense, where the investor is not really involved in the business as such, but is a patient long-term investor. 

And other than that, the advantage is, again, the network, because a lot of family offices like to co-invest with other family offices because of just the sheer connections. So family offices find comfort in working with each other. So if there is a transaction that maybe I’ve seen a couple of family offices that we are very close with participate in, there’s quite a high likelihood that we would consider that.

And we would feel that it’s gone through a few rounds of sort of due diligence or scrutiny. And now we are more comfortable looking at it. So the network, patient capital — I think those are things generally that family offices would bring as LPs. But if the ticket is large and families understand that business, then I think they bring a whole lot in terms of even probably expertise from their own core business side, which could help the venture as well.

“So the network, patient capital — I think those are things generally that family offices would bring as LPs. But if the ticket is large and families understand that business, then I think they bring a whole lot in terms of even probably expertise from their own core business side, which could help the venture as well.”

Paulo: And we see that a lot in Southeast Asia, like local families that are at the helm of many different industries, also trying to get visibility into how these industries are also being digitalized as well. 

I also wanted to ask about — since we’ve written actually in Insignia Business Review, a lot about Chinese wealth going into Singapore — but I also wanted to know how things are looking from the India side of things as well. What specifically are Indian families looking at in Southeast Asia, maybe perhaps different to other markets? And are they bringing anything differently, from families in other markets?

Harsh: So I wouldn’t say that there is a difference in terms of the sectors or industries or areas that they’re looking. See there is definitely a substantial flow of Indian wealth also into Southeast Asia in a lot of investments, which overall I feel is good because Southeast Asia is for many reasons home to a lot of these people.

It is home because maybe they’ve established a holding company to have better access to international capital, either they own businesses in the region or even things like their family offices are set up here or their kids are going to school in places like Singapore. So once you have something on the ground in a particular area, then you understand the market dynamics of that region better, which again makes you kind of patient long-term investor. 

You are not coming in to capture some trend that, “Okay, right now it’s just looking like the flavor of the season, so let’s go and invest there.” But if you understand the market, you are entrenched in it. You understand the dynamics.

Then you are not just an opportunity investor, but more of a patient long-term investor. And the last thing any market needs is only fair weather friends. So from that aspect, I think the influx of Indian capital into Southeast Asia compared to maybe the US or Europe is probably a better thing, I would say.

“There is definitely a substantial flow of Indian wealth also into Southeast Asia in a lot of investments, which overall I feel is good because Southeast Asia is for many reasons home to a lot of these people…then you understand the market dynamics of that region better, which again makes you kind of patient long term investor.”

Paulo: And speaking of patient capital and how that would [make] family offices a little bit different from say other types of investors, what would you say to folks who are listening, who are maybe considering [participating] more actively in a family office or maybe [changing] things around in terms of portfolio composition or become like a fund manager like yourself, especially as we’re seeing a lot more fund managers who are, I guess, more in touch with the startup ecosystem, and not necessarily having to learn everything from scratch?

Harsh: I think patient capital means in terms of our investment decision making, we are not very trading oriented. So we are not looking at being day traders, buying something now, selling something tomorrow, even when it comes to public markets, which are fairly liquid and you could do ins and outs very easily.

Once we build positions, I think generally we are quite comfortable holding them until something has gone really fundamentally wrong. Volatility is not a reason to just sell out of something. So we are not benchmarked, so to [speak], nor do we have to publish performance numbers and say, we’ve beaten the benchmark by this number.

So those are sometimes constraints, which drive you to actions that are not necessarily in the best interest of long-term investing. So we are quite comfortable holding our positions, as long as, as I said, nothing fundamentally has changed. So if we can do that for public markets where exits are easy, holding onto private investments doesn’t stress us.

“Once we build positions, I think generally we are quite comfortable holding them until unless something has gone really fundamentally wrong. Volatility is not a reason to just sell out of something. So we are not benchmarked, so to [speak], nor do we have to publish performance numbers and say, we’ve beaten the benchmark by this number. So those are sometimes constraints, which drive you to actions which are not necessarily in the best interest of long-term investing.”

From Israel to Insignia Ventures Academy: Learnings from Angel Investing

Paulo: On that note, I wanted to shift gears a little bit and talk about your angel investing hat as well which I mentioned earlier in your introduction that you’ve also been doing even before you’ve gotten into this family office, where you’re now CEO of a family office. So how did you get into angel investing? What was that first experience? Were you referred to a startup? Was it something that you intentionally studied and got into?

Harsh: It’s quite interesting. Angel investing started for me with a visit to what is often called “startup nation.” I happened to be in Israel in February 2020, right before all of us got locked down in one way or the other. So it was a summit in Israel organized by OurCrowd, which is one of Israel’s, most active VC investors.

And I think that really opened my eyes to the whole startup ecosystem [and] angel investing. And it was an absolutely amazing experience, visiting company offices, listening to pitches, and seeing product demos. So really full credit to John Medved for putting together such an event to showcase really what Israel has to offer. And in some form, I think Singapore is not far behind at all, and probably maybe Insignia could work on something similar here.

“I happened to be in Israel in February 2020, right before all of us got locked down in one way or the other. So it was a summit in Israel organized by OurCrowd, which is one of Israel’s, most active VC investors. And I think that really opened my eyes to the whole startup ecosystem [and] angel investing…And in some form, I think Singapore is not far behind at all, and probably maybe Insignia could work on something similar here.”

Paulo: I mean, it is actually, I think how the Singapore government also got some inspiration of their own back in the early 2010s by going to Israel themselves. So I think you also walked a similar path, you get inspired by that. So how would you describe your angel investment scope at the moment, or do you have any particular thesis that you carry around, and what do you bring to the table as an angel investor?

Harsh: So I think when it comes to pieces for angel investing, I think it has to be really simple because at the stage where you’re investing, there isn’t much beyond an idea a lot of times, so while I’m not an expert on a lot of the new things that I see and hear for the first time, but my personal thesis is that the idea should be relatable to me in some way or the other.

Now it does not have to be directly related to me, but a problem that maybe either I have personally experienced or I feel that I am aware that a lot of other people in other situations could be facing. It could be something around that, or it could be things like a cause that I strongly feel about. Or it could be something that I’m just really, really curious about. It just seems too fascinating while I may not have [any] idea about it, but I’m just extremely curious about it.

So once, sort of, if I may call, a neural connect, is established based on any of these parameters, then for me, it’s just about the team and TAM. So that in a nutshell is my own personal kind of thesis for angel investing.

“…my personal thesis is that the idea should be relatable to me in some way or the other…So once, sort of, if I may call, a neural connect, is established based on any of these parameters, then for me, it’s just about the team and TAM.”

Paulo: I think for many angels it’s really about personal conviction and then the closer things are to home then obviously the better, and a lot of angels also like to learn through their investments as well. You mentioned about also considering things that you may not be so familiar with, but you’re simply very curious about as well.

So I also was curious about how your work at a family office, and what dynamic it has with your angel investments and vice versa. How do those two things work?

Harsh: I think it’s been very symbiotic in my opinion, because what angel investing or getting into angel investing helped me demonstrate to my high net worth clients was thought leadership. I could talk about a lot of new ideas. I could give valuable input to clients in areas that are outside just my day-to-day routine stuff.

So that helped me demonstrate that I stood out in terms of thought leadership. And that helped me win a lot more business when I was on the other side of the table at Bank of Singapore, dealing with high-net-worth clients. 

And on the other side, how it helped startups or companies or businesses is that through my connections with the high net worth individuals and families, I was able to bring more capital to the table for some of these investments from like-minded investors. On the whole, it was benefiting both sides and I was kind of in the middle of that. So it was a very symbiotic, relationship I’d say.

“…what angel investing or getting into angel investing helped me demonstrate to my high net worth clients was thought leadership…And on the other side, how it helped startups or companies or businesses is that through my connections with the high net worth individuals and families, I was able to bring more capital to the table for some of these investments from like-minded investors.”

Paulo: And even until now, it’s still very much symbiotic. Except now you’re focused very much on one family office. 

Obviously, you mentioned you were in Israel that’s where you caught the startup bug, and you’ve seen a lot of different ecosystems as well. From your experience and things that you’ve encountered so far, what for you makes a great company? 

Harsh: Again, my theory on this is very simple. It’s [a] great team which makes a great company, especially startups, I think the commitment of the founders, their personal chemistry, the complementary skills that they have as a group. If all of that is good, I think that’s all that you need, now rest of it — there are many factors. It’s not [that] every great team is always successful, but I think that is to my mind the most critical.

Paulo: I love that. It’s very simple. You gave a very simple answer, but at the same time, when it comes to reality, it’s also very challenging to actually sift through and figure out which team works and which doesn’t long term.

Harsh: So just looking at pitches, just going through a PowerPoint slide, you can’t get a feel for it, and sometimes it’s difficult, but if you’re lucky enough to have a few interactions, meet people a few times and get that feel then that is what I think creates magic.

“It’s [a] great team which makes a great company, especially startups, I think the commitment of the founders, their personal chemistry, the complimentary skills that they have as a group…It’s not [that] every great team is always successful, but I think that is to my mind the most critical…if you’re lucky enough to have a few interactions, meet people a few times and get that feel then that is what I think creates magic.”

Insignia Ventures Academy Afterthoughts 

Paulo: And speaking of getting the feel of things I wanted to now talk about Insignia Ventures Academy, which was designed precisely for that reason to help folks who are interested in investing in startup to get a feel of it, [and] talk to as many people as possible, leverage [their] network effects. So how did you first encounter IVA? Was it referred to you? Were you sought out or did you apply? What is your story?

Harsh: I was actually actively looking out for something, to help me hone my skills in the venture capital side of things. And I wanted to find something that would help me improve my understanding of venture investing, and build connections in Asia, but at the same time, I wasn’t looking at something which was very just a textbook kind of a thing, “study some notes and here you are,” that is not what I was looking for.

So this came up quite nicely in a timely manner when I was looking out for it, that Insignia set up Insignia Ventures Academy. So I literally probably ended up signing up in record time, because I was mentally so ready for it that I wanted to get into something like this. The moment this came up, I was [sold] because I read a bit about it and it kind of ticked all the boxes for me. And I think it’s been a brilliant decision by Yinglan to move into this area and full credit to people like you and Gail for really shaping it up.

“I wanted to find something that would help me improve my understanding of venture investing, build connections in Asia, but at the same time, I wasn’t looking at something which was very just a textbook kind of a thing, “study some notes and here you are,” that is not what I was looking for. So this came up quite nicely in a timely manner when I was looking out for it, that Insignia set up Insignia Ventures Academy.”

Paulo: And so you made that really quick decision and I mean, the timing, like you mentioned — You went to Israel [before] the pandemic, and then you made already a couple of angel investments, and then now you’re looking for something to upgrade your skillset in that area. And here comes IVA along the way. So it really all happened nicely, over the course of the past two, three years. 

What was the highlight of your experience in IVA? 

Harsh: The biggest highlight for me was meeting entrepreneurs and learning about new businesses, having that badge of Insignia Investor-in-Residence [now called Venture Fellows]. It was like literally the license to go out and call whoever you want. You can’t imagine having that. It’s like a free pass.

So I enjoyed that thoroughly. I couldn’t have otherwise picked up a phone, gone to somebody and say, “Hey, come on, tell me what you do.” [They have] no reason to spend time with me, but it was a beautiful privilege to have Investor-in-Residence, and it exposed me to a lot of people, and also taught me a lot of new things.

“…it was a beautiful privilege to have Investor-in-Residence, and it exposed me to a lot of people, and also taught me a lot of new things.”

Paulo: And I would say it’s not even just a privilege; it’s also a requirement to actually graduate. You actually have to do it more times than, I guess you would normally in your angel investment routine, I would say. 

So what would you say is the biggest thing that you’ve gained — either a skill, a mindset, or even a person that you’ve met through the program from the experience?

Harsh: I think other than knowledge, which of course I’ve gained, I think it’s the connections. Fortunately for me in my cohort, I was perhaps the only person with a banking and finance background. Luckily the rest were either entrepreneurs or were working in some startups or they were just working in businesses that were completely different from my world of financial services.

So that diversity made the connections a lot more enriching…because otherwise a lot of courses and things that I’ve pursued in my professional career have tended to be around areas of finance particularly, and you would find lots of people with similar backgrounds. I was really, really pleasantly surprised with the diversity in my group where I said, “Wow, I’m the only one from banking.”

“Fortunately for me in my cohort, I was perhaps the only person with a banking and finance background…I was really, really pleasantly surprised with the diversity in my group…”

Paulo: It could have been a fish-out-water experience, but you also evolved with the crowd and were able to make the most out of it. 

So speaking of making the most out of things, how would you say IVA has impacted or influenced your career, especially with transitioning to family offices, and the role that you’re now playing in the region’s ecosystem?

Harsh: So I think what the stint did for me was it really helped me understand some of the nuances of VC investing which in turn has kind of made my interactions with founders and other players in the ecosystem much more credible, otherwise I would have been approaching them more like a real rookie, but this has brought in more substance to our discussions. 

So that’s kind of been my biggest sort of gain from it. And it really helps me in my current role, more so than in my previous role, because now I directly interact with a lot of founders and other companies when we evaluate investments, and this comes in handy.

“What the stint did for me was it…has kind of made my interactions with founders and other players in the ecosystem much more credible, otherwise I would have been approaching them more like a real rookie, but this has brought in more substance to our discussions.”

Paulo: And now you have — I don’t think you had ICs when you were in Bank of Singapore, right? But now you’re also having ICs now working in a family office. So it is great that IVA was able to give you a lot of fuel to work with, in terms of talking with founders nowadays in your current role and really exploring the ecosystem further. 

What advice would you give for — just as of this recording, we’re just getting into Cohort 4 at the end of September, and we’re super excited to have another group of venture fellows, hopefully a mixture of very experienced people like yourself and also who have the energy to really get out there and really talk to founders just like you did.

So what advice would you have for this upcoming cohort and future venture fellows who are looking to go through and make the most out of IVA?

Harsh: My only one advice would be don’t stick to the vertical that you’re familiar with. So having done a stint with Revolut, I had some background in fintech and actually when I had given my preferences, so instinctively, fintech was my first choice. So that’s what I know…

But in the end I was really quite happy not to be a part of fintech and be a part of the Edtech team. It opened again a whole new world for me. And I learned a lot about things that I had no idea about. So I think anybody joining this should join with a completely open mind and just again not stick to your areas of comfort.

While it’s good if you know something and be an expert in it and develop further, but I think a lot of technologies and things converge in some way or the other. Having a bit of knowledge on some other domains just comes in very handy in my opinion.

“My only one advice would be don’t stick to the vertical that you’re familiar with…While it’s good if you know something and be an expert in it and develop further, but I think a lot of technologies and things converge in some way or the other.”

Rapid Fire Round

Q: 3 traits that make a great angel investor? 

Harsh: The top three traits would be having a big heart, deep pockets, and a short memory.

Q: Favorite book / podcast / resource to learn about high net worth wealth (management)?

Harsh: I think a book that I’ve read many times is it’s called the Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel. That is something which I would say it’s almost like a handbook, which I keep at the side of my desk. And so many times I refer to it [for] some things about just money and what it does, and behavioral aspects of what money decisions involving money do. I think that book is a total absolute gem. I’d say it’s a must-read.

Q: What digital technology/innovation excites you the most today or is one that you want to learn more about? 

Harsh: Mobility, autonomous vehicles, things like AAM or advanced autonomouse mobility. I think that is something which fascinates me, but not just for the technology behind the vehicles, but because of the impact by way of behavioral changes that it’s going to bring in the society.

We have just no idea how life is going to change or to what degree life can change if you have a fully autonomous fleet on the street, [or if] you have these drones delivering things. There are so many aspects of your life that it’ll change other than just how you move from point A to point B. So it’s those second, third degree changes, which completely fascinates me because it opens up possibilities that haven’t even been imagined.

So that’s a technology that really fascinates me and something that I want to learn a lot about more, because it’s partly related to our business is about nanoparticles, such as graphene. So it’s a wonder material and it’s use cases are just amazing. So that is my current fascination.

Q: Most memorable class / course that you learned from or taught?

Harsh: In one of the additions of the Singapore FinTech festival, I had attended a talk by Tony Fadell. Tony Fadell is the inventor of the iPod, and I was completely blown away by that session. The whole talk around again, talking about new futuristic materials and technology and things like that. So it was one of the most, fascinating sessions or talks that I’ve heard. And I’d highly recommend you to watch a documentary called General Magic. It [is] the story of history’s most talented technology team ever, and it even featured Tony Fadell as well.

Q: How close is your current work to your childhood dream?

Harsh: So I actually wanted to be a doctor like back in those days. Doctor, engineer, lawyer were kind of things that were the most respectable professions in India. And so I was truly interested in that area and I wanted to be a doctor and I’ve actually [taken] medical insurance exams as well.

Q: Your son is also a podcaster and has had several tech luminaries on his show. What’s your favorite episode / takeaway from the episodes he’s hosted? 

Harsh: I think actually there are a lot of them. I actually totally love them and I’ve probably made more notes than he has, watching those episodes. So on one of the episodes we had this gentleman called Navia Amarasuriya. He is the COO of The Contentment Foundation and he shared something which I thought is really, really very relevant for all of us.

And he said this — that in the age of distraction that we live in attention is a very valuable skill. So build your muscle of attention and it will be the foundation of many more beautiful things, which I thought was a very, very powerful statement because we truly are in this age of distraction. Nobody has time. Everybody is multitasking doing five things. Everybody wants a quick one. And it is going to be a very valuable skill, I think. And I found that really very relevant. 

And on another episode, which I really enjoyed, it was with, Nellie Wartoft, who was CEO of Tigerhall. And that episode had some really funny stories and examples. And one thing I remember her saying was, “Social media is like eating a pizza. So at first you really want it. And then you say, why did I have it?” 

These were some interesting moments, but otherwise, I truly enjoyed listening to those interviews and in each one of them, people have some amazing things to share and talk.

Q: What’s your favorite go-to destination in Southeast Asia? / What trip are you most looking forward to taking? 

Harsh: I think in Southeast Asia, it’s hard to beat Bali. It just offers so much that you end up going there a lot of times. So I think that would be one of my favorite destinations in Southeast Asia. But the trip that we really, as a family, are looking forward to or would be next on our agenda is an African safari.

Q: Favorite activity to de-stress? 

Harsh: That’s a top secret. I only promise to tell you on one condition that it doesn’t leak to my wife. So that’s shopping or retail therapy as I call it.