When Dr Yanan Wu, PhD, a former nuclear physicist and Wall Street quant, stood on a bridge in Jakarta, the stark contrast between the glittering skyscrapers and the slums below sparked an epiphany. This moment was the genesis of Surfin, a company built on the mission of leveraging technology for financial inclusion. Eight years later, Surfin has expanded from a regional ambition into a global reality, serving over 90 million users across 10+ markets on three continents.

In these two interviews—one recorded in Singapore and another captured on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange during International Day—Yanan reflects on the journey of building Surfin from a Southeast Asian fintech into a company now operating across the globe. The interviews offer insight into the strategic decisions, learnings, and philosophies that have shaped Surfin’s expansion and its approach to profitability in an increasingly competitive global fintech landscape.

The Moment of Expansion

The timing of these interviews is particularly significant. When Yanan spoke at International Day in New York, Surfin was on the cusp of a major expansion phase. The company had already disbursed over US$4 billion in loans and was experiencing 50% year-on-year revenue growth, with a double-digit net profit margin for four consecutive years. This success validated many of the principles and strategies Yanan articulates in these conversations, setting the stage for Surfin’s next chapter of international scaling.

Key Themes in These Conversations

Throughout these interviews, several core themes emerge that help explain Surfin’s trajectory and its approach to global growth:

• Humility and Adaptability: Yanan emphasizes the importance of being humble and adapting technology to local contexts. From his initial belief in the power of models and data, he learned that understanding social behavior data is paramount for financial inclusion in emerging markets.
• The Power of a Global Vision: Surfin’s expansion beyond Southeast Asia was driven by the realization that their customers’ needs were global. By building a multi-market strategy from the beginning, Surfin has positioned itself as a key player in the global fintech landscape.
• Agent Inclusion: Yanan introduces the concept of “agent inclusion,” where AI-powered virtual agents act as financial partners for individuals, regardless of their background. This vision of democratizing financial advice is central to Surfin’s future strategy.
• Leapfrogging with Technology: Yanan believes that emerging markets can “leapfrog” traditional development paths by embracing new technologies like AI and blockchain. This conviction underpins Surfin’s focus on providing innovative financial products in these regions.

Reading These Interviews

The Singapore interview, conducted by Paulo from Insignia Ventures Partners, explores Surfin’s founding journey, the strategic advantages of Singapore as a fintech hub, Yanan’s transformation from a physicist to an entrepreneur, and his philosophy on leadership. The New York Stock Exchange interview, conducted during International Day, focuses on Surfin’s competitive advantage, its AI-driven approach to financial inclusion, its impressive revenue growth, and its strategy for future expansion.

Together, these conversations provide a window into how a Southeast Asian fintech is thinking about global expansion, regulatory strategy, and sustainable growth—insights that are particularly relevant as Surfin enters its next chapter of international scaling.

These interviews are part of the Southeast Asia Going Global series, produced by Insignia Ventures Partners and the New York Stock Exchange.

Part 1: Singapore

Paulo: I think we can start off with a little bit of reflection. For the last seven, eight years, you guys have been running Surfin. How has your mindset changed from the time that you started? You had that whole epiphany in Bali, right?

Yanan: Yes, that’s right. To really focus on financial inclusion. And then fast forward eight years, now Surfin is in 10-plus markets across three continents, with 70-plus million users all across the globe. Thank you, Paulo, for this question because this really brings a lot of pictures to my mind. As you say, eight years have passed, a lot has happened, a lot of cycles.

The Epiphany in Jakarta

Yanan: It reminds me of that particular night in Jakarta after the Bali trip. We stayed in a five-star hotel in Jakarta. I was standing on the bridge behind the hotel, near Plaza Indonesia and Grand Indonesia, a very fancy shopping district. There’s a river behind it, and on the other side of the river are the slums. On one side, it’s lightning, a very shiny, prosperous shopping district. But the other side is very dark, seemingly hopeless. A bridge connects the two sides, and young boys and girls were holding plastic bags, begging for money in that area.

I was standing on that bridge that night. As I shared with you before, that was really the seed of Surfin. We want to use technology more efficiently to be more inclusive, and that serves a long technology wave. Practically speaking, that was the first time I learned how to surf on Bali, so I really got this impression from Indonesia. I think that really transformed my life as well.

From Portfolio Manager to Entrepreneur

Yanan: I used to be a portfolio manager before that. I managed institutional assets for 15 years in North America, and then in Asia, I used to manage high-net-worth, rich family office assets. So I never looked down at the so-called long-tail customer base. I always managed institutional and wealthy family assets, using my quantitative skills as a quant portfolio manager on Wall Street and in Canada. Before that, I was a nuclear physicist. Totally different work. I was at Los Alamos National Lab, where Oppenheimer used to work and the Manhattan Project originated.

I think being an entrepreneur, rather than sitting in the office watching the capital market, playing with numbers and curves on a computer screen—that particular night drove me to the real world. The real world with a large, even longer scale of customers. Young demographics, hungry for financial services. They want to have a better life, and they want to be embraced by this digital economy. I think that was a real transformation for me personally, to look down rather than look up, to figure out how to fit in and embrace inclusivity with technology.

Paulo: Starting that journey eight years ago, as you mentioned, that fateful night in Jakarta, has it been as you expected so far? What were the things that you didn’t expect throughout this journey? What have you learned in particular?

Yanan: I really learned to be humble. Before, I thought, “I’m a technology guy, an engineer, a model guy, a data guy.” I played with models and data throughout my professional life, whether in the physical world of physics or in the capital market. I thought I was very fluent and proficient in models and data.

But when I started working on financial inclusion, that really changed my mindset. The kind of data we are dealing with is social behavior data, rather than financial behavior data. I used to be very efficient at dealing with financial behavior data, financial assets data. But looking at this young demographic, they don’t even have a bank account in some parts of Africa. So how do we deal with social behavior data? And COVID was also a big shock, right? Suddenly, the economy just collapsed within a very short period of time.

These different experiences have made me humble. I have to come down to earth, to some extent, to re-look at my models, re-look at the technology, and how we can be inclusive to this younger demographic, this long-tail customer base. So, starting from social behavior data and then stress tests from different cycles in different countries. Because as you just mentioned, throughout eight years, we went beyond Indonesia, beyond Southeast Asia. We went to Latin America, we went to Africa. Each country, each region’s user behavior is different. Each country’s economic cycle, credit cycle is different. So it really expanded my whole global vision and also the model and data to be more localized, to some extent, to every region.

So, one thing is that it made me humble. Secondly, it expanded my perspective. In the past, I looked at capital markets, public markets. But now I look more at the digital economy and also beyond one region to multiple regions’ user behavior and credit cycles. That also helped me to appreciate that technology has to be adaptable to each country, to each region. That’s the second change.

Third is also about how to be an entrepreneur. I used to be just an investment director, managing a few talents in the office, 20-30 talents, but that’s all. But now I manage about 4,000 talents, 4,000 staff across 10 to 12 countries. So it is my first time being an entrepreneur. Now I don’t just deal with office staff; I have to travel a lot. I travel on red-eye flights every week to different parts of the world. So I think it is my humbling experience, how to be a leader, how to be an entrepreneur for the first time.

The Importance of Singapore Headquarters

Paulo: I’m going to ask you later about how you were able to manage thousands of people across different markets. But I wanted to start first with the fact that you guys set up your headquarters here in Singapore. Obviously, operating globally, you could have a choice of many different markets of where to set up your headquarters. What makes Singapore really important to you guys as a company? How much value has it given you being headquartered here in terms of scaling, fundraising, and all that?

Yanan: Indeed. After that coming upon that vision for Surfin in Jakarta in 2017, that was in May, and in November, I immediately came to Singapore to set up my headquarters for a global business. Because naturally, at that time, we focused on Southeast Asia, and Singapore is the financial hub for this region. And also very neutral, transparent, and has a very well-structured financial service. So I think that’s why we chose to have our headquarters here in Singapore.

Secondly, Singapore has all the talents and all the capital that we could deploy and use for our global business. So that’s why the headquarters started in Singapore. Our first country is Indonesia, and then the Philippines, and then India, Latin America, and Africa. So we go from here. Singapore is one of the world’s financial hubs and centers, and I think the legal structure, capital structure, and talents here really support us to be more like a global company. So Singapore is a natural birthplace for such a global company, especially for FinTech. Singapore is very innovative in financial technology. Every year we have the Singapore FinTech Festival, supported by MAS. So I think that also helps with this culture and these networking opportunities.

Leadership and Managing a Global Team

Paulo: I wanted to go into your leadership approach. How do you do it? How are you able to juggle… obviously, you mentioned a part of it is actually traveling to these different countries, meeting the different teams there. How have you developed your leadership approach over the eight years? Obviously, when you started, you didn’t have any prior experience doing this, right? What kind of leadership style have you developed so far?

Yanan: That’s hard, Paulo. I used to be a PhD in physics, a postdoc in physics at Los Alamos National Lab and also IBM T.J. Watson Research Center. That’s my background. I didn’t take any business classes; I don’t know anything about managerial skills. I think it’s really learned by doing. I have to force myself to step out of my comfort zone because if we have that vision in mind… whether I can lead such a talented team, initially 20 staff and then gradually expanding to now almost 4,000 or 3,000 staff. So I think it really grew by country.

I’m fortunate enough that we are supported by some of our colleagues who are also young, much younger than me, and they are enthusiastic. They want to go to different parts of the world to expand the business. So in every country, we send country managers and a small team to set up the local business, to raise up local talent. And then from there, we gradually localize our product and technology.

So I think one is to step out of the comfort zone, to really have a mindset of how to make our technology more localized. Secondly, I have to balance the vision, the strategy, and the tactics. Because sometimes the vision and strategy may not be immediately realized. And so I have to learn how to do it step-by-step and have either KPIs or OKRs more lined up with our global vision. Recently, we did managerial training. So I gave a certain leadership training for my senior management team.

I’m still an introvert. Naturally, I’m an introvert, like a physicist, but I have to force myself to be more extroverted, to really lead by example, to share my vision, to make sure my vision can be transmitted from our senior management team to each country’s local team. That’s why I travel a lot. We met in Manila, and I tried to share my vision with my Filipino team and also to help them share the same vision.

The fortunate thing is, I think technology can be inclusive. Once we have seen part of our customer’s life, the customer’s family be transformed, impacted, then people feel more encouraged. That this opportunity is coming up. I shared this example of one time I traveled to Kenya to try to set up the business there. And this one lady, a Kenyan lady, approached me and tried to sell her handmade scarf to me. And that time, I initially refused, trying not to buy her handmade scarf, but she kept on persisting a few times until she said something that touched my heart, and I could not refuse. I was so touched that I just could not refuse. I bought the scarf, and she immediately had that angelic smile.

And then I said, “Can I take a picture of you?” So I took the picture, and she has that angelic smile and her sleeping baby on her back. So now I carry this picture everywhere I go. In my office, this framed picture, in every company deck, I have this picture to try to remind myself where we started from, who we are servicing. Even though this model data is about very cold numbers, we actually serve the family, each individual. I think that’s why finance needs to have a certain temperature. Finance has to reach out to this customer base.

And now, seven years later, last time I had the board meeting this June in Kenya, we found the lady. And then finally, I know her name. Her name is Margaret. And the daughter is a daughter, I didn’t realize, a baby daughter. Now she’s not a baby anymore, she’s seven years old. Her name is there, and she’s already in grade one. So I feel so touched that even with such a small gesture and such a reach out, we may change a family and change a person. So that’s why I feel as long as it’s a good cause, as long as the technology can make an impact, the same like-minded staff, the same like-minded talent can glue together. And my responsibility is to deliver, to help this team to deliver. It is like climbing mountains.

I used to spend my spare time climbing every hill nearby my city during the COVID time because I couldn’t go anywhere. So I had to force myself to step out. That’s why I think when I climb a mountain, I share a similar view that even though sometimes down in the valley, it’s hard to see the road, the path, or even how we can climb so high, you just persist and step out of your comfort zone, and then soon you’ll see a peak. And then you see another peak, and then you follow on. So that’s how I learned by doing for my leadership.

Paulo: I know, I think stories really matter in this case.

The Role of Technology in Financial Inclusion

Paulo: I was curious to know, since you mentioned, as long as you have a great cause and you also mentioned that as long as technology can create that impact, I want to focus more on the technology side. I think you set up Surfin at a time when AI has gone leaps and bounds in terms of development. And obviously, there are many different aspects to AI. You have generative AI, large language models, all those things. What specific aspect of this new era of technology really matters to you as a CEO building Surfin?

Yanan: Me, myself, and Surfin are so lucky and so fortunate that we started the business seven years ago, in 2017. And now, after COVID, with AI developments, we are entering a new era of generative AI, as you just mentioned. I think there are two driving forces that, compared to the last technology cycle, we’ll see another new technology wave. One is AI democratization, right? Computing power democratization. So that democratization of computing power and technology can make financial democratization possible.

One of my personal heroes is Professor Yunus, right? He’s the grandfather of financial inclusion, of microcredit. And at that time, the technology was not available. But because nowadays, with so much data available and also so many big data machine learning algorithms, deep learning algorithms available, and also computing democratization becoming more resourceful, financial democratization becomes possible. So I think that’s the fruit of technology, especially with generative AI.

Secondly, I think what’s more exciting is I used to manage institutional assets. I used to manage high-net-worth assets. In the past, only those privileged people or institutions had a financial advisor, a partner to help them with financial services. But now with generative AI, a robot, a virtual agent, becomes a partner for any individual, for any professional, young startup, SME owner, to be able to have access to financial services. So in the future, I think, as we see in the next few years, I believe the financial service will be fundamentally reshaped and transformed by this agent type of service.

That’s why I invented another token of AI. AI is artificial intelligence, but now I’ve invented another word called “agent inclusion.” In the future, financial inclusion will become agent-based inclusion because no matter what social background, no matter what ethnical background, religion background, or financial background, everyone deserves a partner right from the beginning of their financial journey. So that’s what I dream that Surfin can join in on such a big dividend, such a new era of generative AI that becomes more interactive. Everyone can ask a prompt, ask a question about his or her financial service, and then there’s a robot, an agent behind it that can deliver a very customized financial instrument, a financial product to meet the demands. So that’s the second thing: financial democratization becomes possible because of AI democratization, and even more exciting is that this agent inclusion will become possible.

The Potential of Emerging Markets

Paulo: I wanted to zoom out a little bit and talk about how you view the exit landscape here. Maybe not just Southeast Asia, but globally, since Surfin is a global company. And you’ve talked to many different people across different markets, and you’ve also been in the capital markets, as you’ve mentioned, and have seen different cycles throughout the past few decades. What makes Southeast Asia an exciting place in your opinion? What is the potential that you see in this region for exits, especially since Surfin, in its life of eight years so far, only recently became like a venture-backed company and took in that institutional money? What are your views on that?

Yanan: That’s a good question, Paulo. So I think to me, it is all about waves, surfing along the waves. So I think from a geographical perspective, I believe there are also waves for different regions. So I would say that in the past, China has benefited from the first wave of globalization. I believe Southeast Asia, the APAC region, especially the ASEAN region and South Asia, will benefit from the second wave of globalization because that’s where the most dynamic economic activity will be in the next 20 years. So I believe with 7% to 10% GDP growth annualized in this region, there will be a massive number of consumers, young consumers, and a growing middle class in this region. So that’s why we wanted to partner with them right from the beginning when they’re young, and then hopefully, until they become middle class, we can develop multiple financial services with them.

That’s why our biggest market is in Southeast Asia and the ASEAN region. And I think as long as the young consumers enjoy a better life, they can have much more wealth, then we can serve even more across different financial products. And that’s why Singapore is very dynamic in this region as well, becoming this hub for this exciting region. So we want to plant the seed in this region, and that’s why we have multiple licenses in this region as well, to want to cross-sell different financial services for them.

Looking Forward: International Day and Future Prospects

Paulo: And finally, this conversation is a preview to International Day. And I believe you’ve been to International Day before, so you’ve experienced it, right? What are you looking forward to this year in terms of International Day?

Yanan: Yeah, I really appreciate the NYSE International Day because that really expands the horizon for globalization through the NYSE. Last year, I was fortunate to participate in International Day. So I think there are two aspects. At International Day, we can meet different types of companies and founders, entrepreneurs, not just from South Asia, but also from Latin America. Because last year, we had a soccer star from Brazil, and he’s also one of my favorite stars, to be invited to participate in International Day. So I think that’s a big opportunity to have this almost like a festival for international founders and CEOs.

Secondly, we really appreciate that it gives us a more closer look at the trading floor of the NYSE and also seeing the facilities that the NYSE can provide. Because I think we need more resources in this generative AI era to have capital, have a network, and have technology. And hopefully, through the NYSE, we can access these kinds of resources. And also, I think being a Singaporean company, we want to be really connected on the global stage. I think, to some extent, we hope we become a window through the NYSE for more North American-based institutions to know about this exciting region, to know about South Asia, to know about ASEAN, to know that in the next wave of the Asia decade, I would say. So hopefully, technology and capital can be more sourced to Singapore-based companies and Southeast Asian companies. Because I still think technology can change. Technology can now be more inclusive, no matter which region you’re from.

Paulo: I have one quick follow-up question. Surfin operates in a lot of emerging markets, I would say, in Latin America, Africa, Southeast Asia. What is something that, I guess, most people don’t really know or underestimate about emerging markets when it comes to the potential for growth or innovation?

Yanan: I think many institutions or investors may be less familiar with emerging markets because it takes a lot of effort to know and understand them. And secondly, you actually need patience because emerging markets, of course, have more different cycles compared to developed markets. So that’s why there is certain volatility, certain cycles we have to endure, and have to go through. So you need some patience.

But I think for a long-term investor… fortunately, Surfin also completed Series A after seven years. We welcomed some long-term investors, not only from Southeast Asia but also from North America and from other parts of the world. And they appreciate the opportunity. We can be partners to work on some emerging markets. Because one thing emerging markets provide is that because technology may come from developed markets like America or other countries, the data and the market belong to emerging markets. So I think Surfin becomes the bridge to use technology tailored to tap into the data and also the market, the big consumer market in emerging markets. So I think that gives more potential for long-term investors to invest.

And secondly, emerging markets can have a leapfrog opportunity using AI technology because they don’t have to go through the same pattern, the same road or path as developed markets. China is an example. So I believe Indonesia, I believe India, I believe the Philippines, I believe ASEAN has that opportunity because technology can make this cycle go even faster. Moore’s Law has already been surpassed. So I think with AI democratization, with the agent revolution, emerging markets deserve a better opportunity on the world stage. I hope investors can… we can collaborate and co-partner together to explore this next wave of emerging markets.

She said, “If you buy one more scarf from me, maybe I can build more and more for my baby.” Everyone deserves an agent, everyone deserves a copilot, everyone deserves a partner.

Part 2: New York

Christine: We’re here on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange for International Day. All sorts of leaders from around the world, including in the C-suite, have joined us here at the NYSE to talk about the future of global growth. I’m pleased now to be joined by the chairman and CEO of Surfin, Yanan Wu. Yanan, welcome.

Yanan: Nice to meet you, Christine.

Christine: Wonderful to have you here at the stock exchange, especially for International Day. How are you finding it so far?

Yanan: It’s very exciting and very dynamic. It’s great to see all the folks from all over the world coming together to have this special celebration at the New York Stock Exchange. Actually, this is not something new for me; I was here last year, so I really had a great experience at NYSE International Day. To me, I think the NYSE really wants to involve all international companies and their CEOs to come here to celebrate. We have the great capital market here, and we can also meet and engage with each other and share the energy. Because on the trading floor, that’s where the capital market energy is. Last year, we already had the Brazilian soccer star, and this year we have a basketball superstar from China here. It is just great to see everyone and such dynamism at the exchange.

Christine: The energy definitely feels palpable. I want to talk a bit about your business.

Surfin’s AI and Financial Inclusion

Christine: Companies around the world are leveraging artificial intelligence. What is Surfin’s unique approach to AI?

Yanan: Thank you, Christine. Surfin’s name stands for “surf along the technology wave to bring financial inclusion to the young demographics in emerging markets.” Surfin was headquartered in Singapore in 2017, so it has been seven, almost eight years now. We can celebrate here at the New York Stock Exchange providing financial inclusion through AI technology. Currently, we serve 90 million young people through big data modeling and generative AI technology in 10 emerging markets across three continents. We have dispersed over 4 billion US dollars to these young demographics so that they can have financial credit assets, as well as payment, remittance, credit cards, and wealth management. No matter where you are—Indonesia, Philippines, Mexico, Kenya, or Nigeria—wherever you are, they can have financial access anytime, anywhere, and in a more customized format.

Investment Thesis and Market Strategy

Christine: What is the investment thesis for Surfin?

Yanan: Surfin has its application for AI technology. We have provided cutting-edge, in-house technology to provide social credit. Surfin has invested in this market to provide a Surfin credit score, a Surfin credit lab, and a Surfin Chatbot for interactive financial products for these young demographics. Many of them may be getting financial access for the first time. Some of the young SME owners want to start an enterprise, they want to start a new life, and they can immediately, within one minute, get credit access and a micro-lending product. So I think through this technology, we can be more scalable and sustainable for these young demographics through AI and digital FinTech.

Revenue Growth and Performance

Christine: How has this investment thesis impacted your revenue growth and company performance?

Yanan: Thank you, Christine. For the past seven years, we have benefited from digital mobile penetration and generative AI technology. That has made our financial access and unique product experience very scalable and also very sticky for the younger demographic. That also led to a 50% year-on-year revenue CAGR growth. Last year, in 2024, we delivered a $250 million US dollar top line. And this year, we’ll deliver half a billion, doubling last year’s revenue. We also happen to enjoy a double-digit net profit margin for four years in a row, and we’ll hit $60 million in net profit this year.

Christine: Congratulations. I want to hear more from you, Yanan, about your strategy for deepening your presence in existing markets and the strategy for entering new ones.

Yanan: That’s right. We have adopted a core-satellite marketing strategy. In every region, every continent, we have two or three core markets. For example, in Southeast Asia, we have Indonesia and the Philippines. In South Asia, we have India and Pakistan. In Latin America, we have Mexico. In Africa, we have Kenya and Nigeria. Through these regional core markets, we can build an international portfolio for this investment to access young demographics. That’s why I say the technology can be more scalable through generative AI and make our operating efficiency more sustainable. And that’s why we can access 90 million young demographics, not only for lending products but also for payment, remittance, cross-border financial experiences, and as well as wealth management. Because I believe that in today’s generative AI era, everyone deserves a financial agent through an AI agent. Every young person, no matter who you are, what faith you have, or where you are, can have a co-pilot, a financial partner, to help them access financial services to start a better life and also manage their SMEs. This is how we go to each market.

Risk Management and Resource Allocation

Christine: What is your approach to risk management and resource allocation?

Yanan: Christine, you touched on a great key point. Because fundamentally, finance is about how to price risk. That’s the thesis for any FinTech. In the past, with traditional financial services, it was hard to price the credit risk for a young person who may not have enough financial history, not even a bank account. So how do you provide financial access based on social behavior and alternative data? That’s what Surfin has done in the past seven years through AI and big data technology for social and alternative behavior data to provide social credit. That’s the risk modeling we have provided to 10 markets. It doesn’t depend on any regional background, but it all depends on your social behavior. We have models A, B, C, and F—a comprehensive set of models to characterize a young demographic’s risk. We have developed 600,000 features in the past seven years for different markets to provide a very comprehensive risk modeling storage. And that’s why we can deliver a top-line revenue growth of 50% year-on-year.

Future Growth and Blockchain Integration

Christine: What do you view as the next stage of growth for Surfin?

Yanan: I think the next stage is all about cross-selling and cross-servicing for multiple financial products using AI technology plus blockchain. Because in the future, young people can travel anywhere, and their jobs may not be fixed. They can be flexible job seekers in any part of the world. In that sense, how do you provide easy, convenient, and real-time financial access through AI technology and blockchain, through stablecoin, so that they can enjoy instant financial access? The financial service has to be embedded into their daily life. And through blockchain services, they can be tokenized, fractionalized, and enjoy real-time financial access. I believe that’s what the future has in store because we can access 100 million young people, no matter which region they are in. We have access to the data to understand their behavior—not only social behavior but also financial behavior, consumer behavior, and wealth allocation behavior. So all of these can be tokenized and fractionalized to enjoy free, real-time financial access.